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  "text": "Alright, well, welcome to tonight's, uh, CBOC meeting for Measure S and Measure T. Uh, let's start with a roll call. Olivia, I always turn to you so you have an opportunity to speak during the meeting. Present. Carolyn Chow. Jennifer. Present. Present. Present. Jacqueline Rodriguez. Great. So we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 people present. So we have a quorum to move forward. Carolyn Chow submitted her resignation back in July. So we're down to 6 seated members on the committee, and we have all 6 here this evening. I think we have— let me look ahead on the agenda. Yeah, we have 5.6 about filling vacant positions, so we can talk about that when we get to it. So welcome, everyone. Just as a reminder, Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee, and our responsibilities now include looking at Measure T that we've been working on for years and Measure S. Got a great agenda this evening. We always welcome public participation and comment during the public comment section or during any of the items on the agenda. With that, let's get started. Any changes to the agenda from committee members? Or anyone else? Okay, that was 2.1. Do we have a motion to approve tonight's agenda? So moved, Janet. Thank you. Second from Carl. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, agenda is approved. Uh, Section 3, 3.1. At this time, we'll take any public comment? I don't see anybody here. Is there anyone on the Zoom? Nobody with their hand raised. Okay, excellent. All right, well, once again, if anyone from the public joins or is on and wants to comment as we go through, we always welcome the, uh, input. Okay, let's move into our action item section 4 then. And we have Section 4.1, which is approval of the minutes from the June 17th meeting. Any discussion on the minutes from our last meeting? Nothing. Okay, motion to approve. Thank you, Jen. All in favor? Aye. Okay, minutes from the last meeting approved and will be posted on the district website in the CBOC section. Okay, we've got 2 items now that are very similar. These are the annual reports. This is probably our most important duty, is to produce this report annually. And tonight we're reviewing 2 reports for the fiscal '22-'23 year. And as a reminder, that's not the year that just closed at the end of June, but the one before it. And, uh, so we've got 2 reports, one for T, which has a lot more information in it, also one for S, which has less, because the only thing that happened in S in that fiscal period was essentially the, the voters approved it and the first tranche of bonds were sold. So let's turn our attention to 4.2, which is the annual report for Measure T, and we'll open up for commentary discussion on that one. I have some comments here scrolling down— part of this is just to have conversation to get clarification. Oh, and just before you— hold that thought for one sec. I just want to say that I wrote the reports, and so, and I am very likely to make mistakes. And so if you catch mistakes in here, we'll, we'll catch them. We'll get them corrected. And for— we still think that with those corrections, these are good reports. We can approve them tonight. We'll make the corrections, and then we'll we, we can post the reports. Um, so Jen, fire away. Um, in the bond financial summary, so in the PDF— sorry, should have page numbers on this. Sorry, first comment, we need page numbers. We need page numbers. Okay, but the total bond program revenues listed as $203 million at the bottom of the page I don't think that includes all Prop 39 interests and impact fees because the $10 million is only the impact fee or part of it. But I think the total is closer to $215 million. Let's take a look at— so there are attachments, as you know, and so we could refer to attachment I think Attachment B is the income and expense summary sheet. This is what I used. It's called Attachment B. So, Erica, you can correct any numbers that are wrong. I don't think that all the revenues— there's like a total line for revenues on it. So that was like kind of hard to understand. But if the total expenditures or 211, like that wouldn't work for 203 as the revenue. But I think if you add up the revenues from each group, it's closer to— So here we're talking about the table at the bottom of page 4, which wraps onto the next page, right? Is— so that top section represents the whole program. So let's check our math here. So 193 is the right number, right? For the total amount. And then if I look at the top of— sorry, not projecting here, but Attachment B in the upper right corner, you see $203,000 in revenues for the— Yeah. The Measure T Fund 21 all the way at the upper right. So it's 200— so 193, 203 total revenue minus 193 bond leaves 10 million. For that fiscal year. But if we're doing the total over the entire length of the project, isn't that the far right column, though? The total over the whole project? Yes. 211.4 expenditures. But revenues would be— you'd have to take total revenues from Prop 39. That's just over $2 million in the, the yellow box. And the total revenues of Fund 25 impact fees, $10.75 million. So one, one point of clarification. I'm only referring to the Measure T Fund 21. I'm not including Fund 1 and impact fees because my understanding is that's— is that part of the bond program? It's not part of the total, um, it's not— those are additional programs that are used to fund bond-related programs, but they're not bond money, correct? Correct. So how is total expenditures $211 million, but 203 is our max. Yes, very good point. I think this is where I may have messed up because the 211, you're right, includes those other funds, but the revenue line does not. So I guess we could— we need to make those match. Good catch. So do we want to have the revenue and expense be the total program under Measure T, and if so, then we would, we would change the revenue to— what is the total revenue, Erica? It's not— So it's 203 plus 2 million makes 205 plus call it $11,000, makes $216,000. Is my math correct? Okay, so if we want to be correct, then, uh, Jen, that would be— okay, and I'm rounding up here, so $216,000. And what was the total revenue then? It was $13,000 rounded. Interest impact fees. Okay, great. Oh, it is 23. Yes. Yeah, thank you. 23. Is that right, Erica? Okay, bonds issued 193. So the corrected table will read bonds authorized 193, bonds issued 193, additional funding sources 23. Total 216. Okay. Then just change the narrative above. Set it 10,023,723,216. Okay. 23 in miscellaneous revenue. Total for use to 216. Good call. Okay. So this was correcting— I'm just going to make notes so that we can make sure we get it right in the minutes. Correcting the Bond financial summary copy and table. Okay, was there anything else in that section? Just want to make sure that— okay, the start of year, all those accumulations that 4.2 balance, like, that just needs to be accurate. If you take that 216 and subtract the 4.2 to be what it was at the start of the year, uh, which number are you referring to? This— okay, was Erica— is that the correct bond program balance at the start of the fiscal year? The— that's the spend, right? That's a spend. Yeah, so what was the— so the first line is the bond program balance at the start of the fiscal year. I have $20.1 Or if we just take the decimals off, it works. Okay, the 28 minus the 40 of your 16 spends. Um, the audit has the fund balance beginning at $18.6 million and then ending balance So once again, the question is, does that include the Fund 1 and the impact— and Fund 25, or is that just Fund 21? So how about this? I mean, one way we can expedite this is if I just work with Erica to get the right numbers in here. Are we comfortable with that? Okay. Yes, the correct— at the start of that fiscal year, there was $200 million in the fund. No, the new revenue. $262,000 was the revenue in— during the, the period, correct? Right. Right. And the spend during the, the year was $16.2 million. And the fund— the bond program balance at the end of the period. I see it as $4.2 million. I can, I can help. Okay, I'm not very good at correcting numbers at a public forum, but, um, so I can, I can assist getting the numbers coordinated. Yeah, if we could just refine those so they match our reports. Okay, so table rows. Are we okay with the cumulative bond program spend at the start of the fiscal year was $195 million and it ended the year at $211.4 million, the difference being the $16.2 million that was spent and the, then the revenue less the revenue that came in. Okay. Just making a note here, and 3 rows below that. Okay, so we'll work to get those corrected. Jen, please continue. That was it. Okay, that was it. That's all you have. Okay. Anyone else have any questions, comments, or corrections on the Measure T report? Nice report. Oh, it needs a date. Yes. Which will, if we approve it, we'll make it tonight's date. So. Date entered at top of the letter. Okay, good catch. So just a couple of additions from the previous year's report to point out if you didn't catch it. One, during this period we started looking at the new project list, the no-bid contract list, and the change order list. So those 3 3 for the full fiscal period are attached. You probably saw those. And I refer to that in the CBOC finding section, which is the page right before the pictures. That we started reviewing that additional information and the, the attachments are available. If you look at Attachment E. So Attachment E is the no-bid contracts. So we list all of the no-bid contracts, and on the last page of that attachment, I put a table that summarizes by vendor so you can see the total roll-up. So for example, DRYCO, Got $375,000 in no-bid contracts, which it's harder to see when it just lists them individually. What I felt was missing from that summary table was the number of contracts that each vendor was received. So I'm going to pass this around. I've added a, a column that counts the number of contracts. So for example, DRYCO got 17 contracts. During the fiscal year that totaled $375,000 without having to bid for any of that work. So I'll pass the— this around just so if you guys are okay with adding that column to the table. Um, I'll just make a note to update the attachment. Yeah, I think it's important to include the number of contracts because otherwise it looks like one big number and it was never one. Yep. Yeah. Okay, so that's attachment. No, Bitcoin is attachment E. Okay. The same then, if you look at attachment F, the, the final attachment is the change order listing for the fiscal period. Once again, it lists them all individually. There is a table that summarizes the vendors, and all I've done in this revision is to add the number of change orders in addition to the amount. So then the Rodan Builders was $623,000 in change orders. You'll now see that that's— that was made up of 8 change orders. So if you want to just take— pass that around, you can see how the table just adds one column that counts up the number of change orders. And so my suggestion is that we just add those columns to each of those two attachments. That makes sense. For all— just to see what the change is there. Okay, any other comments or corrections on the report? Nice report. Yeah, well done. Nice report. A lot, a lot of work. Okay, so let me just list out the changes that we just discussed, and then we can have a motion, if there is a motion, to approve the report with these changes. So first was add page numbers. Second, correct the bond financial summary table. The first few rows I've already corrected. We got those correct, and that includes all of the, the programs. And then I will work with the district, and Carl has volunteered to make sure the rest of the rows in that table are correct. And we'll have the right numbers in there. We'll obviously fix the date at the top, which will be tonight's date if we approve it. And then I will update attachments E and F, the, the summary tables with the count of either the no-bid contracts or the change orders. So with those changes, is there a motion to approve the Measure T report? Second. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, Measure T report is approved with those changes. Let's move on then to item 4.3, which is the Measure S report. As you'll see in the Measure S report, there's some placeholders for things that will occur in future periods. I just left them in there so that anyone reading this would know what kinds of things we will be tracking going forward, but weren't applicable because no projects were authorized and nothing was spent other than the cost of issuing the bonds themselves. So obviously here we need to fix the date at the top again. Put the page numbers in. Any comments, questions, or corrections on the Measure S report? I have a couple on that same financial summary. Okay. Did I make mistakes on that one too? Probably. This was just— I think numbers from Measure T got pulled in. Oh, are we talking about the copy or the table? Did I forget to— The narrative and the table. Okay, so walk me through which ones need to get fixed, if you don't mind. 193 million. Measure S, that was T. Voters approved. Yes, sorry, 298. Okay, that's corrected. Second. Yep. And all bonds were sold. No, wait a minute. Okay, I just forgot. You're right. I forgot to update the copy here. It should say voters approved $298 million in bonds under Measure S, and $90 million, right, of bonds were sold in this period. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, in this fiscal period. Um, okay, that's the end. And then that's the end of the sentence. Um, and then we don't— there was $20,000 in Missile in interest. But we can just skip that, I think, is your point. It's immaterial. Okay, okay. So I've adjusted the first sentence under bond financial summary. Now reads, voters approved $298 million in bonds under Measure S, and $90 million of bonds were sold in this fiscal period. We don't need the majority. You're right. I just missed this whole section. Thank you. We should just say project spending during the period totaled 0, right? Or just say there was no project spending in this period. During the period. Okay. Got it. Now, is the table correct? I think the table's right. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Rick, do we consider the $450,000 to be bond program spend? I mean, it was taken from the proceeds, right? Yeah. I mean, if you want to account for Okay. Was that this year as issuance costs? Okay. So what I've— Yeah, I got it. Okay. So that second part of the table now reads bond program balance at start of fiscal year, 0. New revenue, $90.02. There was a little bit of interest. Then bond program spend, and I put in parentheses issuance costs, is $0.45 million, otherwise known as $450K. And then I didn't change— $89.6 is correct. And then the next row, cumulative bond program spend at start is zero, and then cumulative bond program spend at the end of the fiscal year was the $0.45 again. Yeah. Okay. Bond financial summary copy and table corrected. Okay, got it. Any other changes? Maybe, maybe not on the next page. Under the committee membership and our names. Did the committee have 9 seated members and 1 vacant position? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and a vacancy. So just update the 8 to a 10 at the end of— oh, At 8 seated at the end of 2024. Resigned from the committee. So that— you're right, that should be 9, correct? Okay. So we started with 10 and a vacancy. We— and then Raquel Gonzalez resigned. So at the end of the period, the committee had 9 seated members and 1 vacant position. Let me just also correct that in Measure T then, because it was probably the same. Good catch. Yes. It's the same committee. So it's the same 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 minus 1 is 9. Okay, I corrected in both places. Number of— I don't know if we have to revote or if we just call that a typographical correction on the Measure T report. 8 to 9. Okay, any other changes? I have a question regarding the— just the bond issuance cost. I was just curious if that was for the $90 million or was that for the total? Like, will you incur those costs again every time? That was for the $99— will you have to pay Moody's $61,500 every time for the getting the rating? Yeah, invest in Moody's, J— Paul. Okay, any other? If not, is there a motion to approve? Let me just summarize the changes, and then we can get the motion. The changes are fix the date at the top, add page numbers. The bond financial summary table or section, we've fixed the copy and we fixed the table numbers, and then we've corrected the number of committee members at the end of the period. It was listed as 8. It was actually 9. Okay, with those changes, is there a motion to approve the Measure S report? Motion. Thank you, Jitpal. Second. Janet. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, Measure S report is approved with the edits that we reviewed. We'll make those changes and get it to the district for posting. Thank you, everyone. That takes us into Section 5. And 5.1 is a topic, district counsel versus independent counsel for the CBOC. And just as a refresher, You recall that Cameron Hoffman, who was a previous member, wrote up her thoughts on the topic. She was an ad hoc subcommittee chartered to go off and research this topic. She did. She came back with her findings and recommendations. We had some discussion on it at the last meeting. We wanted, and then to get input from the district's counsel on the topic, and we have that presentation this evening. Tonight, William Tunick from BWK, our district council, is here to discuss this with the committee. With that, I'll turn it over to William. William, thank you for coming. There you go. Figured out the hard part. Yeah, so there we go. So good evening. As CBOC mentioned my name is William Tunick. I'm an attorney with RCSD. I work with the district on a variety of issues, actually a variety of districts, including on CBOCs. And so I know there had been a question, and we actually have seen this question from CBOCs at other districts as well, as far as legal counsel for CBOCs independent of district legal counsel. And so I want to just kind of talk to you a little bit about when we've looked at it from our analysis and why we've come to the conclusion we have, and then happy to answer any questions on it as well. You know, the first place, obviously, when we have a question like this, we start by looking at the statute. So looking at the Education Code provisions that, that require CBOCs, what do they say about this, if anything? And the short answer is they don't. What the CBOC statute does talk about, obviously, is the duties of the CBOC. It talks about different types of activities that CBOCs may engage in in order to fulfill those duties. The closest it gets is talking about technical assistance to be provided by the district. That's in 15280. But it doesn't specifically call out legal counsel, or even actually, I don't think the word legal shows up anywhere in the CBOC statutes at all. And that's in contrast with, if you look other places in the Ed Code, when you talk about school districts, other legal entities that are across, that exist across the state. For the most part, when the legislature, whoever's drafting the statutes, in this case it was the voters, want an entity to be able to have legal counsel it's going to get called out in the statute. So school districts specifically can do it. Also, the things you usually see if an entity is going to have independent legal counsel is, A, that it exists as a legal entity independent from any other body, the ability to sue or be sued, as well as an independent source of funding. Those would be the types of things that you would usually associate with an entity that had its own legal counsel. And again, for CBOCs, you don't see any of those things. present. So that all of those things are suggesting that it wasn't contemplated by the statute when it was enacted by the voters. The other piece of that is looking a little bit at what the duties of the CBOC— and actually, I should— let me just stop and, and say one thing. I mentioned the technical assistance piece. I know that's been a question as well. Does that include legal assistance? And I think it does to some extent. For example, when the district is helping the CBOC post agendas, conduct meetings, there's going to be questions about the Brown Act, for example. That would be a place where the district would be providing technical assistance that would have a legal perspective to it, I guess you could say, as far as the operation of the CBOC. But that's again the district providing technical assistance from its legal counsel in a lot of ways, the same way that when you have questions about expenditures or the bond program and you're looking for technical assistance, that is also going to be coming from district staff. So a little bit of a parallel there. But the second thing also that we took a look at is what are the duties of a CBOC, right? So the CBOC's duties are to inform the public concerning the expenditure of bond funds. Again, as I mentioned, the word legal does not show up in these statutes. So the CBOC statutes don't talk about the CBOC making legal determinations per se. And I think it's kind of interesting because if you look at the statute structure, there's another article of this same chapter that's right above the part that talks about CBOCs, and that's the part that talks about taxpayer actions. And so there's actually an entire separate part of the code that talks about if there is a legal question to be determined, that a taxpayer can bring a challenge to a court, and the court is the one that makes essentially a binding legal determination. So the voters adopted that and the CBOC statutes at the same time. There seems to be a pretty big distinction between the idea that legal issues go to the court. Non-legal issues are what the CBOC is concerned in. So that also suggests that the need for independent legal counsel wouldn't be there because that's not really within the duties of what the CBOC would be looking at. And then the last thing, and, and this is more a question about even if it's possible, is that as attorneys, we're subject to rules, professional rules of conduct, as far as how we operate and duties of loyalty and confidentiality to clients. Those get really tricky, if not kind of impossible to pull off, where you're being— when an attorney is being paid by one entity and has a client as a different entity. And those 2 entities may or not have interests that align, there becomes an ethical problem for the attorney as far as how to make that work, and sometimes you can't make it work. So that's the other thing that would suggest that where you have, again, a group that doesn't have— isn't an independent entity, doesn't have its own independent funding source, that it isn't really possible to have the district paying for quote-unquote independent counsel because you'd run into that ethical problem that the attorney would be placed in. So You know, again, and we've looked at this several times. Every time we kind of come back to the same place, which is, you know, all of those reasons suggest that there really isn't provision, and maybe couldn't be a situation where you'd have independent legal counsel for CBOC. But really, the place of, of the attorney when it comes to CBOC is, is through that technical assistance provided by, by the district if there's kind of legal technical assistance type questions. So that's sort of how we've come at it and looked at it for a few districts. But I'm happy to to answer any questions that the committee may have. So I think— I guess I need clarification on your last statement. So, excuse me, are you saying that it's a good thing or not a good thing to have one representation for the district and CBOC? I didn't quite understand. So yeah, let me actually make sure I use the right word. So the representation is of the district, to be clear. So the client— so my client, or our client as a firm, is always going to be the district. The board gives us direction. That's who our client is. What I'm saying is that we could not— I, I don't think that the statutes or even the, the rules of responsibility allow us to be paid by the district and quote unquote represent the CBOC. If that makes sense. Like, I think that the idea that there would be an independent duty to the CBOC separate than the district is, is, I think— are you saying that for you specifically, your firm, or for any firm being paid by the district but representing the CBOC has— is an issue? Yes, because I'm saying that the, the rules of professional responsibility, um, I mean, it's similar situation you run into with, for example, insurance companies, where if, if you're being paid by a third party and representing— to represent another client and their interests don't align, then that— whether or not you represent the other, you know, the district in the first place, you can run into an issue there. And, and additional— besides that, the first two points that I mentioned about the idea that there isn't really contemplation for the CBOC to have independent counsel in the first place would hold regardless. Sorry. Thank you for all that. That was great. I guess the question I would have for you is, now that you— Sorry. Okay, okay, much better. So now that we've heard why we should not have independent counsel, where is it that people point to that states that we should? I guess I'm just curious. Well, I, I've heard a couple things. I've heard— I think I've heard that— well, a couple arguments. One, the technical assistance argument, right, that the statute talks about providing technical assistance. That must mean an attorney. I think we talked a little bit about why I don't know that actually plays out. Two, I think I've heard comments from, from CBOC saying, well, we have to make legal determinations. How are we going to do that without our own attorney? And again, I think When we look at the duty of what the CBOC is, I think that's different. I think that ultimately is for a court to do. And then the third thing that I've heard, and, and I think this committee's heard as well, is there are CBOCs out there that have attorneys. So I, I know, I think West Contra Costa maybe is one that gets raised. LAUSD is another one. You know, I think the response to that is just because another district does it doesn't make it legal. I also tend to kind of put LAUSD in a separate world when it comes to most everything. But, you know, I think that The, the only other situation, and I don't know in those two districts specifically if the bond measure itself said something different specific to that. I think that could alter the analysis perhaps, but otherwise we're kind of looking at what we've got in the Ed Code, and that's where we come down. So I will add to that. Are you familiar with the California Association of Bond Oversight Committees? Yes. CABOC? Yeah. Which I believe is the only independent body that's helping advise CBOCs. On best practices. They recommend it. Yeah. So to say that nobody recommends it would not be correct. Oh yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to say— if I said nobody recommends it, I don't mean that. Okay. So to that point, they not only recommend it, they scream it. That's like the first thing that, that comes out. Um, so then I'm gonna— I'm not sure you can answer this question, but We have sat in this room and we have been, um, explained to why we are out of compliance, why we are, um, in a libelous situation, uh, where, um, we could be sued as, um, members of this bond measure oversight because of that, that we, we don't have independent And the other part of my question is, an independent counsel comes out of the bond money then too, correct? I mean, if we got our own independent counsel, would that be an expenditure to the bond? Well, yeah, I, I— that, that I'm not 100% sure about. I think it's still technically district funds, so it would come out of technical support. It's a one for one, right? We can pay an hour of —is time to— Yes, yes. Pay somebody else's an hour to do so. Okay. But, but I— if— sorry, I didn't want to answer your first question. Yeah. Well, first of all, I disagree whether or not the CBOC itself could actually be sued because that's a different issue. But I'd also point out your bylaws say— and I think they're just reflecting what the law requires— is that the district's insurance covers the CBOC and its members. And also there's a duty to defend in there. So anything you do in your official capacity almost like a, like this, like the Board of Trustees, same thing. The districts, I mean, by the, for the bylaws, you've got insurance and defense there. I mean, it's, it's in a lot of ways similar to, like, districts will have LCAP committees or something else that's required by law to exist and be sort of run by the district. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's still within that district umbrella. I think maybe a hypothetical here would be great for exploring this. So let's say the district goes to— you're the counsel for the district. The district decides that they want to build something. They go to you and say, is this legal under the bond, the Constitution, and Ed Code? Your advice is it is. Mm-hmm. OK. Then it comes before the CBOC, and we look at that and we say, huh, we don't think that that's legal. So we need to put that in our report to the taxpayers that it is not a legal bond expense. But we want legal counsel on that. Question, we would go to you. Your duty is to the district. You've already told them it is. So how would you handle that situation? Yeah, I, I think you're right. And I think actually what you said in the sort of in the middle of that hypothetical is sort of where I would end it in some respects, which is that if ultimately the CBOC doesn't agree and think something falls outside of the measure language, that's the information that gets reported to the public. Because again, the duty of the CBOC isn't so much to make a legal determination as it's to report whatever its review of that information is. I think if— But if we needed some advice, because we're not attorneys in interpreting the Ed Code or the ballot measure or the Constitution, you know, wherever— where would we go for that advice? Yeah, and I guess what I'm saying is I think you're either— your district counsel would come and explain whatever their opinion is, kind of what I'm doing tonight. Or ultimately, again, I'm not sure that the CBOC's duty includes doing a full-blown legal analysis of the question or not. Ultimately, if I think if, if you disagree that something is within the measure, that's— you say that in the report. If you think it's within the measure, you say that, because otherwise I think it starts to turn the CBOC into sort of a semi-judiciary body making legal determinations one way or the other. And then, you know, I could— Isn't bond oversight specifically a legal requirement? I, again, I think that if you look at the way that that statute's set up, they talk about taxpayer actions, and it's very specific. If a taxpayer thinks that money should not be spent on something under the bond, you go to court— I guess over that direction— and the judge makes that decision. If the CBOC believes, for whatever reason, whether it's legal or otherwise, that an expenditure was not proper, that's information that gets reported to the public. And I think that's— to me, that's how you drive those two because I get— How would the committee in this hypothetical decide that it was not legal? They might seek advice. Yeah, and I guess what I'm saying is— Where would you suggest they get the advice, the legal advice from? Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is ultimately I don't think you have to seek that advice to do— to fulfill the duties of the CBOC. Maybe that's where I'm— So if a majority of the members think it's improper, just vote on it and that's good enough? Yeah, exactly. And, and report that to the public. Yes. So if I can add to that, then in that case— and I agree, I, I, I agree with that direction— then it would be up to the voters to say, whoa, this is what was reported. It wasn't that the Bond Oversight Committee even reported out. They could take it to court. Then the, the community who voted for this are the ones that could take it to court. Our job is just to report out what is done, but not necessarily to stop it after it's done. You know, he's already made a decision. I'm talking about getting legal advice on what we would write in the report. I'm not sure we— I, I have to agree, I'm not sure we need that legal advice. I, I don't see where we would need that legal advice. So almost like we would take on liability if we needed to take that step. Yeah. And I mean, I'll, I'll just, if I can real quickly, I mean, just an experience from another CBOC where they had attorneys in the community, and essentially they had— it turned into a new— it turned into like a— if you've seen an appellate hearing, you know, the 2 attorneys in front of their podiums and 5 or 6 people in front of them, and they're deciding which of the 2 attorneys they agree with. I don't know that that's really what the CBOC was intended to do, to be perfectly honest. And so I think that's— I think that's how a lot of the answer to the question, if that helps. So, so again, I think this just goes back to really quickly. If we find an impropriety in spending— $500 hammers, whatever it might be— you know, Heinz ketchup taste, you know, testing that was supposed to, you know, that's outrageously cost prohibitive. And we see it, we write in our report. Taxpayer X reads the report, decides to say that, well, there's an impropriety. They're, they're not necessarily coming after the CBOC at all. You're, you're saying that you have— you yourself also mention a conflict, right? You, you kind of can't do representation Carl's also saying, by CBOC, you know, bylaws, we're told to seek legal counsel. So that, that, that's kind of the gray area I think that everybody's having, um, is like, where is that little boundary stop where, okay, if that person sues the district, yeah, we, we've said, we've stated $500 hammers were purchased, it's in our report, we submit it. We— Carl's asking, do we need to seek legal counsel? Are we under— so we're not necessarily under any statute or any kind of legal piece of it except a witness in this case of a maybe possible impropriety. Is that, is that how we'd be looked at? Yeah, I mean, yeah, no, you'd have no role in that. I mean, to, to be honest, the role that, that, that the CBOC would have in that situation is when that person filed the lawsuit, your report's going to be Exhibit A on the back of that lawsuit, and they're going to go to court and they're going to say, look, the community, the, the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee found this illegal expenditure in court. You need to fix this. And that's— and then the, the district would be the one defending it, and their counsel, the CBOC, would not be. I think the question is, you just used the word illegal. How would the committee know whether it's legal or illegal? So, so that's the question, I think. So at the end of the day, the question is, if, if, if the CBOC bylaws are, are, are, are saying seek independent legal counsel, is that strictly for— do you think that would— that, that was written as just for technical for technicalities like you mentioned, technical advice, sort of like asking, you know, the accounting team whether numbers are accurate or— Yeah, yeah. And, and sorry, just to interrupt, so I— when you were talking about the bylaws, I think you're talking the, the CalBOK bylaws. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, correct. Yes, sir. Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. And I, I couldn't necessarily speak to the intent there, but I think that, yeah, if in, in my view, the way that it would work, if you— if the CBOC has a legal question, I've talked to lots of CBOCs about expenditures. District Council would come in and say, look, this is how we think it's legal, A, B, C, and D, whatever, kind of like what I did tonight. If the CBOC isn't buying it, then I think in the report it's, you know, the district did this, we think it's illegal because it doesn't— you know, we, we read the measure to say you could spend money on A, B, C, and D, and we don't think this expenditure falls within A, B, C, and D. Okay. And then if we find out Company X did something illegal by slipping in $500 hammers into the PO that was issued out to the district, and taxpayer Y does some, you know, hardcore accounting lookups on all these expenditures and finds this discrepancy, and it goes to court, you are then defending just the district, and the CBOC is completely eliminated. I think what, what you'd have— the only time you'd have the CBOC sort of in that pos— in the other position, and again, it'd really be the district, is if, for example, you didn't issue a report, and the statute— and the, like, the annual report— and the statute says you have to do it, Okay, that would be a place where I could see someone saying you need to do what the law says you do, you didn't do it, that type of thing. Okay, yeah, kind of building off of that, um, the question I, I would have is, um, I think the fear that is, uh, projected towards CBOC is from you need external, uh, counsel is, uh, that concept of negligence where we miss something. And, um, it sounds like, you know, in the past we've heard where we could be held accountable for that. And but from what you just said about kind of the annual report, like, I guess the concept of negligence for us would be not issuing the report. Yeah. But is there a greater risk of negligence within kind of how a CBOC operates? I, I wouldn't think so. I mean, especially when it comes to— I mean, I'm trying to analogize it to something like a board, for example. Generally speaking, if you're —operating reasonably, fulfilling the statutory duties, those types of things. It's, it's very hard to show negligence of that type of thing. So I mean, I guess to your question, if there was something that was ultimately found to be illegal and the CBOC hadn't identified in the report, is there some liability for the CBOC not finding everything? I don't think so. I don't think there's any authority that says that. And, and to be honest, I think that would be a pretty unfair standard for CBOCs and the members of those CBOCs. To be put under. Great, thank you. So really, the CBOC's role is to simply be an oversight, just to offer friendly citizenship and, you know, due, due process. Is that kind of— I, I think so. And I think that, you know, the, the important function that you're also pres— is that you're here going through this information in more detail than maybe the average voter is, right, and flagging those kind of things that you think there's a concern with. And then, and we're asking questions, the district doing all that kind of thing. And I think that, that's really an oversight function as opposed to, you know, a legal enforcement type function. Sure. But I mean, I think the devil's in the details, right? So it's, it's very difficult to see some of this. I mean, when, when governments get caught for improper, you know, you know, spending issues, it's, it seems to be mostly based on the contractor hiding costs. Into, uh, issue, you know. So it's, you know, it happens all the time, and I'm just wondering, you know, if, if it just makes it feel more as a check mark and, and a process rather than fulfilling actual taxpayer responsibility. Of we— everybody in the room's a taxpayer. These are everybody's money, not including the, you know, everybody in the district. So, um, yeah, just feels more, you know And if I can just— sorry to— but on the, on the sort of— because I think there's kind of 2 types of legal questions. There's, is this expenditure within the bond? And then there's also, you know, the $500 hammer type thing that you're— you know, the statute does contemplate, and I think you might have an, you know, independent audits, right? That is something that's required. And so I think there you've got that backstop there, and that was a place where the voters said we want somebody outside the district to do that. So to me, that is sort of a backstop on that piece. I think when I think of what CBOCs have asked legal counsel about, a lot of times it's been, is this expenditure— we all agree, whatever that is— is it within the scope of the measure or not? And that's really, you know, reading the measure, looking at what the project is, and making a judgment call about, does one fit within the other? And I think that's something probably— I, I know a lot of CBOCs that have been able to issue reports saying one way or the other on that. Without getting into the legal details. Okay, so you said that you're very— you're aware of others' CBOCs. Okay, so have you ever been in a situation where, um, there has been, uh, an issue that's arose and the conflict that's arose between the the committee and the district or the community? Is— have you ever had to go to court? I mean, do you know of a— that's, um, I, I mean, there's definitely issues between the community and the district and ending up in court over whether something is an expenditure within the bond funds. That, that is definitely— I'm thinking if I've been involved one personally, but there's plenty of cases where that has definitely happened, um, where somebody says you built this project and that wasn't in the measure, you can't do it, that kind of a thing. And the court ultimately decide what the answer to that is. Okay, so then in that kind of a scenario, they had a committee and the committee approved it. You know, I'd have to go back and look at the particular cases to see what the committee— but I don't, I don't remember the committee's role being central to whatever the court had to say about it. So hypothetically, we approve. Yep. And then the community takes it and sues, and we approved it. Where do we stand on that? Yeah, and I, I, I guess I would use the word approve. Yeah, I think I was going to say, I don't know that approve is— I mean, what you did is you would have approved the report. We think it's— yeah, the short answer is I think you're kind of— you're not really part of that proceeding. That becomes the taxpayer and the district in front of a judge, and the judge is going to look at the measure language and the statutes and things. Other— it would look bad for us that we didn't catch it. Okay, I mean, something that That shows your good report. See, so I think I, I didn't want to cut you off there. Okay, so my concern is not about being sued or liability. My concern is legal advice in carrying out our duties. So as a reminder, one of our duties is ensure that bond revenues are expended only for the purpose described in blah blah blah, and we know what that is. So my concern is we something appears before us and we're not sure whether it complies or does not comply. We're ready to write our report. Two committee members say clearly it complies and two say clearly it does not comply. Now we'd like to get a third party to look at the code, the law, and come back and render an opinion to help us decide whether to vote that it, it does or it doesn't, and then put it in our report. That's our only duty, to put it in the report. Report, but we have to, you know, agree on the report. So we want some advice. Simply, we want advice to carry out our duties. And you're suggesting that we would go to you for that advice, correct? Yeah. As the technical support from the district. Thank you, Siri. We would go to you. Yeah. Well, you have— may have already rendered advice to the district that this is a legal expense and it can be accrued to the bond. You don't see a conflict there in, in advising us as well on that? No, because ultimately we're still representing the district. We're providing you technical assistance under that duty from the district. So no, we don't have— if what I said about those rules of professional responsibility, if we had a duty, independent duty to the CBOC and an independent duty to the district, that's where we have the conflict. But what I'm saying is that ultimately we remain, you know, much as any other district staff is here to provide district technical assistance, we'd be— I mean, almost a way to think about it is assume that a district had in-house general counsel and they were providing that information. It, it sort of would be that same, that same, same type of situation. It just appears to be, because this is the oversight committee, to be a conflict for you to have advised the district that this is a legal expense and then to advise us that potentially it isn't a legal expense. And I think, I guess, which you wouldn't do, you would advise us that it was legal because that's what you told the district in your Yeah, right. Your fiduciary responsibility is to them, correct? Yeah, and I don't— I think, again, I think the word advise is where I would, where I would take issue. I think what we would, we would come and provide information about why we believe it's legal. I don't think we would say independent opinion, we think it's legal or not. That's the distinction. Okay. And so if we wanted to get a second opinion, let's say, you don't see any issue in the statute about saying, hey, we asked the district to get us a second opinion. That would be technical support as well. No, I don't think— I, I think because the district doesn't— there's nothing providing that you go get— you get to have a second opinion, essentially. But if, if that's what the code wanted, I think it would say that. And again, we run into all the same issues about having independent counsel when you do that, both from the conflict. And there's no statutory provision that talks about that. I mean, there's a question about public funds. I don't think it would be a gift of public funds, but there's, you know, the idea of a district paying to have somebody say that something they're doing illegal. Starts to sound like a question. Yeah, that's, that's the root of the whole question right here. So absolutely. So in, in that case, could we then have him do his presentation as to why we can still have our conversation and we could still agree to disagree on the committee? And when you write the report, you say committee may have passed it, but 4 for, 2 against, and this is why we got a presentation from the district council and our decision was blah blah blah. And you just have to be very clear in the reporting out process on that case. I would say that's on us to make sure we're reporting out. Agree with that. Yeah, I, I think we just have— I think, I think you have a minority report provision in the bylaws, right, that calls that out. And I, I think he also mentioned, though, that we could, we could use the district funds if we had to get an independent attorney as well. It's just that we would be using funds to do that process, right? But I agree. I think if, I think if it's up for vote and it goes 4-2 or something and people say nay, then mark it in the report as a, as, as a, you know, as— yeah, it was not unanimous and it was an important point. I think basically the point is mark everything in the report that's, that's controversial, or, or where, where we really feel like there's an impropriety, but, or even if we're not sure. At the end of the day, the voters want to know we're doing our job paying attention to the dollars and to what the bond measure has spelled out and what is allowed, what is allowed to be spent. So that's our job to see that it gets done. And if we question that that's still our job to question it. Um, and then having the council come before us, we can agree to disagree with you. Um, you can answer our questions but not necessarily tell us how to vote. Just tell us, you know, I guess how you feel about it, but we can still vote our way. It's not— you can clarify, but And I think it might be helpful because I forgot this point from the bylaws. So, William, thank you for bringing it up. There is a Section 6C says reports of minority viewpoints of the committee are allowed. All such minority viewpoint reports must be reviewed by the committee and be faithfully articulated to the public by the designated minority spokesperson. To avoid the need for minority reports, due diligence should be pursued pursued to resolve divisive issues during the review process, thereby attaining fullest possible committee support for the content of the report. So in the hypothetical, two people could say, we just don't agree this is legal. We're going to write a minority report and publish it, and it would be allowed under the bylaws. Yep. All right. Thank you for bringing that. Thank you for coming this evening. We're sharing your views, allowing us to pepper you with lots lots of questions pointing to something in the bylaws I had forgotten about. So very helpful. Of course, happy to be here. Any other questions? Okay, we're closing out Item 5.1. Uh, 5.2, turning our attention to Measure S now, um, and progress and update on the Facilities Master Plan process. Which, if you didn't happen to catch the board meeting last night, there was a presentation. I don't know if you're planning to talk to the same thing this evening. Okay. Yes, I will give an update on that, but if you wanted to provide any comments— No, just my only comment was that it was presented to the board last night as well. Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. Jennifer Gibb, program manager for Measure S. We have been working on a couple things since last time we met. The board had approved a financial system for Measure S, so that has been implemented, and we're working in the background to reconcile that with the district system. And so at a, a future Bond Oversight Committee meeting, we'll be able to bring the reports as presented with expenditures through that system. So that's an update on our financial system. The next This is the Master— or excuse me, our current projects that we are working on. So the district's done a lighting assessment. Those are complete. And we'll be bringing— staff will be bringing options for procuring those improvements in the September board meeting. Power studies are being done in regards to the availability of all existing sites as we look forward to doing the HVAC upgrades. at the district-wide. And then we're also continuing to review for additional quick starts. An item that was brought up at the board meeting last night, for those of you that attended and/or watched, was doing some HVAC improvements. So we are looking at that as, again, a quick start project. We're doing the electrical assessments as well as working for an HVAC solution. Another opportunity is window tenting as we look for even a quicker quick start, right? So that's something that we're going to be working with staff to implement in the next coming weeks to limit and/or try to reduce additional heat in our classrooms. So that's for our active projects. In regards to the Master Plan— Do you want to take questions at the end? Yes, I can take questions however you'd like. So I think one of the topics that came up last night at the board meeting, which is appropriate for this committee, is some temp— as you referred to, some temporary measures, maybe window tinting or a portable fan or whatever for cooling. All great. And the question was asked, I think, last night, would that be a bond expense? And someone mentioned, well, we wouldn't want to put in a new HVAC unit in a building that 2 years from now we're going to tear down once we we get the facilities master plan, and then we decide, okay, that building's going to be replaced. So my, my question here is, how are you determining what's a bond expense versus what's an operating expense as you talk about these short-term measures? Correct. So we'll be working with staff in regards to, as we're doing that in concert with the facilities master planning process, right? Doing our— we've done our condition assessment. So we've done several things that we are understanding are opportunities in the placement of, um, full facility replacement versus modernization. And we'll just be working through that process as we, you know, quicker than quick as we go through this process. So just maybe to put a finer point on the question, whose job is to decide if it's an operating expense or a bond expense? Through the— anybody can answer. Yeah, absolutely. It's It is working with the district and our consultants through the master planning process to identify those needs. And then if it's aligned in our facilities master plan as a Measure S project, then that would be— the replacement of the unit would be under the bond. If it's a temporary solution but and/or related to Measure S, again, could be paid for out of the bond. Those are all things that we're going to be utilizing the master planning process to determine whether or not it's a operations or capital expenditure. You want to— yeah, the— you're comparing it to the Facilities Master Plan, which you're finalizing now, and you're taking that into consideration. So an example would be this building is going to come down in 2 years. But you want to do something. You're not saying you won't do it, you're just saying it's being considered. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I'm assuming though that you might put in a temporary movement pool or something in that location until, you know, HVAC was decided if that building is coming down. Correct. That's what I was just going to say. There will be an assessment. Um, sites will be prioritized, um, with whether it's, you know, within the first month, first year, next 5 years regarding the condition of those units, and then taking into consideration if the physical facility will be replaced, new, or modernized. And then also there are those temporary solutions, and then those units sometimes depending on the contract and the way we work with our new teams, some of those units are reusable. So it's not, um, for waste, but that is all part of the planning process. I can't tell you today exactly what sites district-wide would have— yes, we're going to give them new units, yes, we're going to give them a temporary unit and/or a unit that would then be used on the new building. Um, but that's something that we're working forward with. Um, just a clarification. So I don't want to jump to your conclusion, but I think from watching the board meeting last night, the facilities master plan finalization is in the January, February timeframe. So I guess my question even more pointed is if in 2 weeks from now you decide to spend some money on HVAC, it won't be aligned with the master plan because it's not done. So how will you make a decision whether it's a bond expense or— Rick, do you want to just jump in on this? So I, I think one thing that And I know, I know Carl was watching last night, uh, Mike happened to be there too, and, and John, is the point made, or the big point made last night, is HVAC is not going into this district anytime soon, right? The full-scale HVAC implementations, uh, looking at school sites, it's a multi-year project to do this, right? So if we're lucky, we might be at the Uh, last night we said 3 schools. We'd be lucky if we're at 2. Maybe we're at 4, uh, if things work out perfectly for next summer. Not for October, not for December. Uh, there are some— uh, so that'll happen with, like I said, 2 or 4— 2 to 4 schools. And those are clearly bond improvement projects planned out years in advance. And yeah, but those 2 or 4 of them will have 4 or 5 more the following summer and 4 or 5 more the following summer after that. So when we look at HVAC as a whole, we're looking at a 4- to 6-year process in order to address the needs at all of our school sites, uh, for a number of reasons. One, the, the size and scope of projects, the short window in the summer now, right? We only have 60-odd days with no students or staff on campus, right? Uh, we have a lot of campuses that are used during the summer, so we'll have displacement of those campuses when those go there. So there's a lot of moving parts to take into account where, yes, we want HVAC as soon as possible, but that's not in the near, near term. What we're talking about with some of this is doing work on buildings for mitigation of heat that we can do quickly, right? One was the window tint or the film, that type of thing. There was discussions of painting the asphalt white. I mean, A number of ideas came out last night that can be implemented sooner, right? And so we'll have to look at those on a case-by-case basis, on a classroom-by-classroom basis. If we have a classroom that never exceeds 65 degrees right now because of the big oak tree that's shading it all day, we're probably not going to focus any time or energy on there, but we will focus on the classroom that gets up to 89 on a regular basis, right? So we're going to have to pick and choose. Martin and his team, along with VPCS, along with QKA, are going to have to go and evaluate some of these rooms, one based on what we know as a district, to what we hear from teachers and students and staff, to go and address certain rooms to make this a plausible project now where there's benefit now. So some of those temporary solutions might be there for 5+ years. Before that school is actually air-conditioned ready, right? And, and others will be sooner than that. And that's the work with Jen and QKA and the Facilities Master Plan team. We haven't thrown out the 2015 Master Plan. It's still there. So we have a semblance of that as we start the planning for the new master plan that will be done in phases across the next 5 to 6 months. Uh, and so we'll know that at School X— I'm not going to name a school because somebody will hold me to it— uh, that we're going to put a new two-story building there. We expect construction to start in the next 12 months, let's say. We're not going to go put new HVAC units and new roof on that building, but we may use some mitigation measures for heat in the interim because we're going to go through— and the rest of this, we're going to go through the spring, summer. Yeah. And potentially up to another year before that construction project starts. So we're taking all that into account in the planning. We are, as was mentioned last night, we are going to test this on some rooms immediately and come back with some more options for— So not to cut you off, but how is the accounting going to be done? That's what I'm asking. The accounting. Well, the— So let's say you put window film on a building that will be torn down next year. You already know in the facility's Master Facilities Plan it's going to be torn down in a year or two, but you need to put window film on because it's too hot in the classroom. Get it. Totally makes sense. Let's do it. How do you account for that? How do you decide how to account for that? Well, we would have to look at that once, once the project's before us. Okay. Right? Right now I can't say there will be construction at that site in 12 months. That was just an example right now. And we'll look at that in coordination with our facilities team, and we'll charge appropriately. But there's no, like, there's no set rule in place for this is going to be an operating expense versus this is going to be a bond expense. Not at this point, no. Okay. Well, there are rules, I mean, about how operating expense versus capital versus bond expense, but you're saying there aren't any guidance yet established for Measure S? But still, for the upgrade or modernization of a building. Yeah. Even if it were 2 years away from being replaced, right? So we'll take that into account as we're doing this. Well, that was my— really my only question is like, who's making the accounting decisions? Because ultimately we'll be reviewing those accounting decisions somewhere down the line. But, but Carl, they, they think they spent like 1.5— whatever it was— $2 million on the old Orion facility, which they no longer own, but they were obligated to by the district because they own the facilities. I mean, though they— there's no students out of our district, out of our taxpayers that are, you know, they still had to maintain the facility. So there might have been painting that was part of the original— they might not have done the full-blown plan, but they did have to do a minimum amount, I believe, to maintain. So I— your, your, your question is very valid. I agree. I know what you're asking. Your question is simply, yeah, if they got to paint the, the roof white, who's paying for the paint? And is that coming out of the district budget, or is this going to come out of bond funds? I, I understand your question. That wasn't even my question. My question was who decides which fund it comes from. I think, yeah, it'll be a recommendation from the district to the board, and the board will make the ultimate decision on the payment of it. Normal governance, right? So before we go any further, Olivia, could I get you to get me help? I shut my computer again and we frozen. Sorry, I wanted to— Yes, sorry to derail you, Jennifer, but were there any other questions about— before you're going to talk about the facilities Master Facilities Plan process next, correct? Any other questions about Jennifer's update before we move to that portion? Okay, fire away. And you're not derailing. I'm a pleasure of the committee, so happy to answer any questions, and those are definitely important. Um, so for the Master Facilities Plan process, um, we— let me just tell you what we've done to date. Um, the teams, QKA, Van Pelt, and the maintenance and operation teams walked all of the sites evaluating them, um, for overall condition, uh, building infrastructure, finishes, restrooms, all the counts, um, you know, toilet count, all of those types of things. Um, condition of the infrastructure, accessibility, parking, drop-off, pickup, uh, playgrounds, fields, um, and then, um, any other opportunities that were, um, of note. As, uh, Rick mentioned, if the school site has an opportunity that they note maybe in the maintenance, um, work order system, that we're aware of that. Um, and we've also done, um, solar array, um, location identifications and, um, potential, um, opportunities and/or challenges with future positioning of Master Facilities Planning. So we've looked at those as well. Um, we had our first educational specifications meeting on the 20th of August with, um, the leadership team, and then, um, we've been, um, working on planning each individual site committee meeting with the site committees that are established at those sites. So that's what's to come. We'll be working, um, with the school site administration and then their, um, um, formed site committee representative, representative of their, um, school and school community, um, to have meetings with the Master Facilities Planning team, our team, and district staff to garner input in regards to the needs and/or opportunities they see at their site. Um, we'll be doing that over the next, um, month, and in that, we will also be working with them on the educational specifications of how they, um, utilize their space to, um, to teach the students, right? The pedagogy. So, um, we're working on that. Um, we'll be coming, um, out. You'll be seeing a survey as well, not only to the site community, but also to the community at large. Um, that will be available and be sent out, um, via all social media and/or district website, any opportunity that the district's communication team can get out, um, working with, um, local paper, etc. Um, we'll also be having, um, open forums for the community at large, not just the school community, because it's important to the board through this process that we also get input from all of our constituents. So those will be held in person and via Zoom at both different times so that we can make sure that if you aren't available to attend in person, you can jump on the Zoom. So that's kind of where we're at right now in the Master Facilities Planning process. I'm happy to answer any questions. I did have one question real quick. Are, are you using the same architects that were used for Measure T? Master Facilities Plan. So it all starts from scratch. We are not using the same architect, so it is starting— this team is new, but we're not starting from scratch. We're able to use all of our as-built, so our DSA-approved plans. We have that. We have the old master plan documents. We have the current work that was done with Measure T and, and any input that was provided between the master plan and now with surveilling and work order systems from the maintenance and operation team. So it's not from scratch, but this team is getting all that together, and we're producing a new Master Plan based off of the data that we have. Okay, thank you. Do you have a question? I have one, but— Really quick, when are the open forums supposed to be? They're still to be announced. So as soon as they are, I'm sure that staff will send that out to the Oversight Committee as well so that you can participate. Paid in that. Yes. Uh, beyond the expenses for obviously your work and the facilities Master Facilities Plan architect, have there been any other Measure S expenses? Uh, there have not been that I'm aware of. Okay, good to know. Thank you. Yeah, any other questions for Jennifer? What architecture firm was— Kwiatrowski Kwok Architects. They're in our qualified pool that the board adopted, and then they also were solicited from that pool the opportunity to submit a proposal. So they submitted through that and were the most qualified that the board ended up adopting. And I would add that if you want to see the present— QKA, is that their— Correct. If you want to see the presentation that they gave to the board last night, The meetings are on the district YouTube channel, so I would recommend if you want to hear more about it directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak, the, the person from QK presented last night. There are no drawings. There are no drawings. It was a drawing. You were not the winner of the drawing, though, unfortunately. Someone else got the— okay, great. Anything else on Measure S? Any questions from the committee? Okay, moving into 5.3 then. Progress report on Measure T. We're back to Measure T now. Closing out any projects on Measure T. I don't see Will here this evening, so Rick, are you going to speak to that, or Martin? Okay, Martin. Yeah, I can speak to it. Thank you. So right now, currently, they're working on the final closeout with the district-wide energy management system and the security. That's one. The, the next one would be the working on reporting and auditing of the state funding program. And the last one would be the Solar 2 phase, still working through their procurement phase of The RFP has been completed and responses, evaluations, and interviews. Uh, there was a selected design-build contractor and currently working through contract negotiations for that. That's, that's it. Okay, very much it for— where is Solar 2 Phase? Who gets that? Where will that go? What is— which site of solar? Oh, so we did 4 on Phase 1. And then the remaining would be, uh, minus a couple depending— we're still working on the design to see, but the rest, the rest of the campuses, yeah. So will all of our buildings eventually have solar? Is that what the— not the buildings, but on the buildings themselves, but there would be standalone arrays. Yeah, to offset, to offset the facilities, offset the facilities. So are— do any of our new ones, like TAF is a new build, um, do they currently have something like that? Interesting. All right, thanks, Martin. Uh, so that takes us to 5.4. We're going to go into Measure T now in more detail. Um, and just as a reminder, this meeting is covering the fiscal period of April April 1st through June 30th. So the last quarter of last fiscal year, and then at our next meeting, which we'll talk about shortly, we'll be reviewing the fiscal period we're in right now, which is July 1st through end of September. So we're looking back at April through June. List of bond expenditures since the last meeting is 5.4 million. 4.1, but there were none. Is that correct? Oh, no, I'm sorry, that's the Excel spreadsheet, right? Okay, sorry, I didn't see it there. Yeah, so there was the spreadsheet sent out. There are 27 line items on the 541 attachment. Does anyone have any questions about those? You're good. Okay. Right. We can always go back, but let's move on then to 542, contractor change orders during the period. This is the one where there were none, correct? Okay. So nothing to review on 542. Takes us to 543, list of no-bid contracts in the period. Anybody have questions on that one? Okay. Um, so I— oh, I have the right sheet in front of me. Can you explain what reinstall— what to me, when you reinstall something, is because didn't get installed right the first time, or it broke, or what's reinstall? Did it just expend its time and now it needs new— what? Those, um, yeah, so It's a new system that got installed. It's a new system that got reinstalled. It got reinstalled, yeah. So, um, I think there was a glitch and, um, and we had to pay for it. What's that? We had to pay for it. I mean, there was a glitch in it. Was there something broke? I'm— No, no, I didn't— No, I won't say there was a glitch. Uh, there, there was, uh, application in a server that had— that was having issues. Part of the troubleshooting and work that was done made it necessary to reinstall that and reprogram not only the server but many of the endpoints as well in order to have communication between that server and our school site. And so, uh, the labor, uh, and time to do that, uh, was really what we're paying for with Siemens. It wasn't a warranty item, or— that's just what I was asking. It wasn't a warranty item, and it wasn't something that was defective at the beginning. No. Okay, okay. I just know that if I have to reinstall something because it broke too soon, then I go back to the manufacturer and say Thank you. That's similar to a computer getting corrupted, and they have to reinstall the operating system and then have to reprogram endpoints to assist with that. Yeah, this, that's mostly software. So really common. So they just— Yeah. Thank you. A few questions for me. What's Print Services ARC? What, what printing are we talking about? Does anyone know? Arc— they plot full-size drawings. Yeah, exactly. It's a blueprint, like architectural blueprints. They go from the original to, uh, a database where we can access them, or they get into being able to access them. Are you also getting record runs right now? We have drawings, record. But that $6,000, is that for— is that— you're probably doing a lot of closeout and record drawing right now, getting your, getting your bookshelves. Yeah, just as part of closeout. Part of closeout. Okay, my next question is the obvious one on here, which is a $540,000, otherwise known as half a million dollar contract for Sage that was not bid. Can you explain that one? That was a professional services contract for the solar, uh, the work done previous to bidding the solar project out as a design-build project. Uh, we enlisted the help of Sage, uh, and as part of that contract, uh, we chose to go with them, uh, and they're helping us through the, uh, securing of the, uh, contractor for solar project Phase 2. And can you remind us why for a professional services contract you don't have to bid that even though it's a half million dollars? Uh, yes. Um, Jen, do you have a quick answer on that? No, for, for professional services, did they do Phase 1? It's more about the dollar value. It's kind of surprising to see benchmark price from Phase 1, right? Phase 1 as well. So is the pricing similar to what it was for Phase 1? Depending on— for professional services, if they were, um, already went through a qualification process, they're able to utilize the qualifications. If they were, um, secured in Phase 1, then Phase 2, they are already qualified, um, as part of the total scope, and they could be utilized for those services. Just with a no-bid request for proposal. And when was it? An example would be our architectural services. We have a pool. They've already been qualified. We so can choose to just ask for one proposal from the qualified team, or you can ask for them from everything. With no dollar limit. With no dollar limit. Correct. Under professional services. But hopefully you could figure out fair pricing based on that previous work. Correct. More scope. Yeah. So, so you could take multiple bids or multiple POs from different companies? You could still solicit multiple bids, correct? Yeah. Correct. Yes. But to make sure that that Company X is not screwing you over, have you— would you typically do that? Or in other words, how would the taxpayer know that somebody else couldn't have done it for $400,000? So if I'm not familiar with this project, as it's not Measure T, but as it— It's a hypothetical. Correct. As it relates to specific scopes of work, I'm seeing that this is for solar energy. If it's a Phase 2 of energy and we already have a Phase 1 of energy continuity between the two is incredibly important, as it's a system of our district. And so we wouldn't be having two designs, two management for separate sites, system, or district-wide— excuse me— for one overall system. If we were going to design a completely separate building that wasn't related to a district-wide system, I would say you would go out and get multiple float. Does that make sense? Yeah. So when was Phase 1? When did, um, Sage do Phase 1? Before I was here. That was started in 2016. They started, believe so. What's that? 2016. 2016. Yeah. So they were qualified in 2015 or 2016? Not too sure, Carl. Some— but in that part of the— but time frame, assuming— yes. Let's say 8 to 10 years ago, and you needed to do Phase 2. They were already qualified from 8 to 10 years ago. They said we can do it for $500,000, and the board approved it. And you— did you ever consider asking for a quote from someone else? I can't answer that. No, no. I mean, I might be wrong, Carl, on the, on the time, because I'm now just coming back to me as we're talking right now. It might have been later. Um, but no, we, we, we didn't. I mean, like Jen mentioned, just keeping the continuity between, you know, and then them knowing our, our district and helping us with Phase 1, you continue— they've helped us so many projects throughout the district, uh, not only for the solar but also for some of the charging stations. Got it. I think, uh, and I'll bring this up in 5.7, but I think I think a good agenda topic for this committee for a future meeting would be for us to get a refresher from an expert on when districts can have no-bid contracts, to what level and under what conditions, so that we make sure as we're reviewing this, we're all coming from the same point because I'm unclear, like, what is, what does the Ed Code say? Like, when can you, how much? Phase 2, if it was 10 years ago that you did Phase 1, is that contractor still qualified that we've talked about? I probably— yes, I just would love to get a refresher on the whole topic. Yeah, and actually, they're, they're still helping us wrap up some of the— they've been a great help with us with our charging stations, for example, at facilities. I mean, I mean, typically, typically you go with your approved vendors list, but once the approved vendors are working with you, it, it does make it easier to continue to work with them. But, you know, as, as working in sales, I'll be honest with you that, that, that's when inflation from account managers starts to trickle in because they know, they realize that they have a good relationship with that client and they can. So how would the taxpayer know? Just usually, so depends. So sometimes, sometimes state agencies or some organizations will have to get multiple bids regardless. So even though Company X is working with State X, you know, agency for a while, you will still have to— that they might still cause, you know, they'll— they make the call, but basically they would still go out and get other bids. And when is that required? It's not so much a requirement as, as it is just like, um, a test sometimes of their current vendor list to make sure that they're still staying honest with their pricing and fair— keeping fair and honest price. That's the part, right, to That's— but that's up to them. How do you know what the price check is other than like, yes, 100%, so that's why they'll go out and rebid it, especially if it's been a delay. Like, if that vendor though might be there for— you've developed a trust, that's great. But if, if, if materials costs go up, right, or whatever manufacturing costs go up based on that, you do tend to go get another bid because you want to know what the fair price is as adjusted for inflation. But then also just to retest your vendors to make sure that they're dealing with you honestly. Yeah, we just don't know if that's— 100%, you don't know. That's why I asked if they got multiple bids regardless, because, yeah, I mean, in this case there weren't. Yeah, you're— you could be— and when I look back at our attachment to the— sorry, to the annual report we just approved, the largest no-bid contract for that whole year was $90,000. This one is $500,000. It stands out to me that, uh, why would you not get a competing bid on a half million dollars worth of work? I'd like to understand what the requirements are. That's my suggestion for— so that we're all working from the same understanding of what is the, what does the code require in terms of no-bid contracts. We don't have to argue it here. Yeah, I think the code and the requirements I think they stated is correct, but I think the— it's a— you're asking about best practice. I'm saying best practice is to test your vendor again to make sure that they're, you know, at least get another— or check the number because you can go back and see what it was and you can add the inflation in the material. All that's there, and you can extrapolate from there what's a fair price. Yeah, depending on the timeline though, but it could— you're right, but depending on the timeline, sometimes it's just easier to just get another, another bid to make sure that everybody's staying— market research would have done well in this scenario because, you know, if it truly was like 8 years ago, technology has changed, services have changed. I can't say that market research did not happen. I just don't have the information tonight. To share. I, I, I make the assumption that it wasn't because there was due diligence done. Was there any discussion of this when it was approved at the board, Mike? The half-million-dollar expense? There was discussion about the project. Um, I can't remember if there was discussion about the particular, uh, professional services, uh, the selection there. Was this approved under consent or This would have been an action item. It was okay. The board date is listed here, April 3rd, so we can always go back and look and see what discussion there was. But it— Jen, were you suggesting a follow-up on this specific expense? I almost wonder, is it within our rights to say— and we should find out what the the no-bid contracts rules are, right? But to find out, like, if something comes in for over $100K on a no-bid, the, the committee probably wants to see backup. Is that fair to, like, have to see? Can request— you can ask for— and the district provides technical support for any question that you have or the committee has. Like, maybe that's just something when we see the no-bid contracts for the, the quarter to say, we'd like to see the backup on those higher price items for transparency. I'll note that, and we can talk about it in 5.7 if we want to, um, add that to the next agenda. Uh, I'll just note it as the Sage no-bid contract. Okay, good discussion there. Any other questions on the no-bid list from that period? Okay. That takes us to 544, which is the new projects and spending approved. Any questions on the new projects? And as we see, 2 of the projects are on both lists. They were new. Yeah. I just have a question just for my own sake. I'm sorry, what is an, a clock speaker? Is that— So it, it actually tells you what time it is? Yes. I like that. Yeah, tells you there's a fire. Yeah, I like that. That's great. And it— you missed one at McKinley. That's $9,000 for that. Wow. And worth it, worth it for, for, you know, someone in the class who may have visual impairment, you know, or— but that's just to correct one thing. What? It doesn't say the time, it's just a clock. And a speaker next to it, so it can be an intercom for— it can be digital. Okay, it's just— yeah, I didn't want you to have the wrong impression. I did, I did. I use speaker on it because I've seen them. They should be able to talk. I— that is really something that's needed in, in our classrooms is a clock that will tell the time. Sorry, you got to go to, um, one of the, uh, Master Facilities Plan— I know, I community sessions and suggest that. Absolutely, I will. Okay. Thank you. That's a great question, though, for clarification. Yeah, I like that. Thank you. The, the list gets shorter every time of Measure T activity, as it should. Okay. Yeah. 545, any current litigation or disputes related to Measure T? None. Okay. That takes us to 55, otherwise known as the ERICA. Show, and, uh, we're going to go through the financial update on T and S. It's, uh, the floor is yours, Erica. The revenue, um, for, uh, for fiscal year 23-24 has been updated with the fourth quarter interest revenue of $14,890. And the expenditure, um, the total revenue is Uh, 93,376, 205, and the total value of the Prop 39, uh, is $2,425,690. The total, um, the actual take-home funds I have a question on that, but any, any other questions on this one? Is this a report that you generate from software, or is this an Excel spreadsheet that you maintain? Okay. Based on those numbers, I need to update this spreadsheet. Got it. So my request is, could you add some fields to this? I, I would love to know what the bond program balances are at the end of each fiscal period. You can, you can calculate it, but I think it'd be great if you could just show it here, because I always have to do the math to figure out, like, well, how much is left? You, you have to— actually was— okay, so 4 point— but I'd love it if you could just, going forward, just include that, uh, on your report that we get quarterly. It would be great. Then I don't have to do the math. It's right there. Okay, thank you. Any other— anything else on 5 on A? Okay. Mhm. 5.5C is the report from accountability system. This is the consolidated protective health report, and, and this report shows us for cumulative actual of all funds. Look at page 10, it shows that, um, Are you in the audit now for last fiscal year or not yet? What's your rough timing on— March you complete? When do you start usually? Probably middle of the year. Okay. Is— are these the final numbers for the fiscal year then, or it could still adjust? There might be. There is— Okay. So you're considering this to be It's done and closed. Okay, thank you. What is 5.5D? The Measure Resources and Budgets report? This one, this one, um, shows the total budget for all funds broken down by object codes. The total budget, um, Is the $215,333,292. Is this a new one? I don't think so. I always— okay, maybe it was just in— it was spread over more pages maybe before or something. It's, it's easier to review this one, um, in this format. So thank you. I tried, I tried. Oh, I eliminated the— what those, um, um columns that it was no number in it. Okay. So it's easier to review. So I didn't include those. Got it. Okay, thanks. Any questions on D? Okay. The next one, it's 5.5E. This is regarding Measure S. This is a report from the district financial system, and it shows that— this is a board report— it shows the, uh, actual interest, uh, for last fiscal year is $3.2 million, and the expenditures, uh, it's $1.2 million. We had, um, some DWK legal expenses the accountant salary, mobile modular, some key analytics expenses, VPCS, copier lease, QKA, and Bay Area News advertising. So I think we— so this is helpful. This is for Measure S, obviously. It may have been my— mistake of not asking you specifically for the list of Measure S expenses. So we got the spreadsheet for Measure T, but we don't— we didn't get the spreadsheet for Measure S, which would back up the $1.3 roughly million of expenditure in S in this period. You just verbally went through them. Yes, because we are not recording accountability, so I don't have that. I would not have the same report as we have for Measure T. And I think in the future we want to use the key analytics financial system. But somewhere you have written down what the expenses were for Measure S because you just described them. Yes, from financial— the district financial system. Okay, could you start supplying those in the next— But it doesn't have descriptions, so it would not be helpful. By, by the next meeting, the Key analytics system should be producing the CBOC reports that highlight similar to what accountability does on the other reports. Okay. So could you just go through— so in this period for Measure S, $1.285 million was spent, right? We can see it here, classified salary. So how are you apportioning— that's the bond accountant, otherwise known as Erica, right? How are you apportioning her between— sorry, her salary and benefits between S and T, because she shows up under T as well, right? Small portion that's transitioning. So I, I adjust— we adjusted the budget. Um, um, uh, we had only, uh, $45,675 for, uh, a budget for last fiscal year, and, uh, I just adjusted the— whatever was spent exceeded that amount, we just send it to Measure S. Carry it. As a measure— we carry it to Measure S expenditure report. Okay. And how is it being accounted for this fiscal year? Is it all going to be under Measure S? It's all Measure S. All Measure S this fiscal year. Okay. And then could you just— the big one here is the $1.2 million on capital outlay. Could you just tell us again what's in that? You wouldn't mind? It's VPCS services, program management, and QKA. The architect? Yes. Okay. And the, the key analytics software, accounting software. Okay, got it. Thank you. Any, uh, questions on the Measure S report? There— they don't— there isn't currently a set budget because we don't have a set plan, right, in terms of like where all the buckets would go. So, but in theory, once that's set we could see those numbers and compare them to what the allocated budgets are for each, right? Correct. Oh, go ahead, Rick. Okay, correct. Um, as we are, um, implementing key analytics, we have the first issuance, and then we have the approved contracts for said services, um, QKA, Van Pelt, and key analytics as of right now. Then once the implementation plan is created from the Master Plan, we will then have an identified allocation, just like you have with Measure T. So that will be input into the system. When you see the next report at your next meeting, if it's prior to the adoption of the Master Plan, we'll put whatever budgets that have been approved by the board for those encumbered projects. You'll be seeing that in there, but you will see a significant balance of un— budgeted because we don't have the Master Plan yet. Can I, can I ask, is that per, per, per the, um, for the $90 million? We'll, we'll only see that stretch. What— how do you get the bonds issued after that, uh, funds back issued from the $298? Uh, is that annually, or, uh, would those funds get— would you get another $90 million in 2 years, 3 years? Sorry, I don't understand that process. Yeah, it, it would depend, Jaapal, on how fast we expend the first $90 million and then the projects that we have lined up. So we'll do cost planning along with the facilities master plan. We'll take available resources that we have at that moment and we'll extrapolate those out against those projects, determine the lifecycle of those projects, and then we'll work with our financial advisors and VPCS to determine when the next tranche will be sold. To keep projects rolling and always have cash on hand. All right, uh, anything else under 5.5? Questions for Erica? Thank you, Erica, as always. Appreciated. Um, 5.6, we have Vacancies. I believe I'm correct in saying that we have 1 vacancy to fill to just get us back to the required 7 members per our bylaws, and we also have 2 mandated positions that need to be filled now: the taxpayer representative and the business association representative, which I don't think we've ever filled, or at least has been vacant for a couple years. Um, so Rick, please let us know what, what's happening to get the committee back to its legislatively required number of members. Well, I, I, I think there's two things there, Carl. I think one, you need 7 members as a requirement of the CBOC that have very distinct roles on the CBC, and we have one additional that would not have to fill one of those roles. So I think the 7 is true, but we're really looking for the 7 that fulfill the 7 roles as mandated. Unfortunately, we did have the resignation in July of our Taxpayers Association member. To this point, we've not been able to fill either of those. We are looking though, as Jen was alluding to, with the Facility Master Plan Committee meetings coming up starting on the 5th We're also going to use that as an opportunity to talk about all of the opportunity of coming here once a quarter and looking at the facilities and Master Facilities Plan as it relates to the overall bond program and Measure S and the completion of Measure T. So we'll be using that as also another opportunity to solicit potential people. To this point, through the efforts made, we have not had any new applicants for the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee. And, and what were those efforts, if you don't mind sharing? Just the reach out, the conversations, the places that, you know, Dr. Baker goes to and, and talks to various groups. And it might not always be priority one, but I know he's mentioning it to them. And then the reach out and conversations that we have on a day-to-day basis, even with employees who may know somebody. We have made larger sweeps previously, but with no, no applications, uh, in over 2 years now. Just got a text like an hour ago for the area 3. We need that on CBOC. There you go. Yeah, I, I was going to say that the mailer that came up for us was very charming and was— I felt very important or wanted as a, as a member of my community. So I just wondering if that mailer ever went back out to the rest of the community. I don't know if anybody else got a letter, but I got a letter. It made me feel very important, so I thought I signed. I don't know what you're referring to. I received a letter from the district. Did you get a letter? Yeah, saying, you know, can you submit a resume, blah blah blah. It was very effective for me. It's not like— this is probably the most exciting— this was 2 years ago. Yeah, when, when they were initially looking, you would talk about recently. Like, did I fall off the list? So I, I noticed a lot of people, a lot of people don't read emails, but when they get a letter from a district— I don't know, it worked for me. Just— no, I, I— work for me. I agree. So are you familiar with this letter, uh, Dr. Baker? You remember? Yeah. Okay. We haven't done another one though, you're saying? We could do that again. So I think— well, tonight, because parents do not They do not like letters. No, the text messages come loud and clear. I get that loud and clear. They don't like letters. Wow. I'd rather email. I know everything's done email today. So I, I don't think I've seen it advertised in— I mean, I'm a parent, obviously, so I get the peach jar flyers and there's all kinds of— there's your superintendent's, um, you know, newsletter that comes out. I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned in the time we've been looking. It's been in the superintendent's— It has been? It has been. Yeah. It was a— I like the idea, Rick. I mean, we're going to be having— we, the district, will be having these community meetings, right, to gather input for this. So the people who show up are already predisposed to be interested in facilities. I think it's a great idea for you to say, hey, and we, we have this oversight committee that's intimately involved in. So if you are passionate about this topic, like, come join this wonderful committee. It's the perfect time to, to see who's interested in the community. Right, but they also have to fill one of the roles too. So it makes it— it's not just anyone. Right. Right. Right. Well, the board has requested 11 members, correct? So we have room to add people who don't fulfill— we still need to fulfill the 2, I agree, but there's also a space up to 11. Wasn't the board resolution to say we want an 11-member committee? I thought it was reduced to— the quorum was an issue. Well, okay, so I, I— let me just say that it would be great to get a bunch of people to apply. Even if you disqualify them, at least you're getting applications in. So So pitching it during these facilities planning site council sessions is great if you want us to mention it. I'm planning to go to the site council meeting for my school. I'm happy to mention it there, tell everyone what a great time I'm having here. I would post something at those meetings, even like a— whatever, 11 by 17, put a QR code on it with all the information about the role we're looking for. And Carl should talk about— well, and you should— all of, all of us should be talking about the— also sent— I mean, our one— our principal sent out, uh, emails to— I don't know if everybody got them. I don't— I have no idea about all the schools, but I'm asking— is— and that, that, that, that meeting is to discuss Measure S funding, correct? Yeah. So— or that board, or whatever the Advisory Council, whatever it is per school. So yeah, those people who show up likely are good targets for recruiting from. Well, I'm, I'm wondering if we can even just get the principals to shoot out that there is a Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee, or have them discuss it somewhere. I'll ask our principal. Like, say the right thing there too. You want to like put in like, this is what we're looking for, this is what the time commitment is, make sure that, you know. Yeah, yeah, I think that, that's super important because we had a number of people resign, right, saying, hey, I don't have the time to do it. So doesn't help us to have someone come on who then leaves. Yeah, you're right. And there will be district representation at all of those meetings that can bring that up as far as the— I think, you know, getting back to 7 is our immediate objective because the bylaws say we need to be at 7. We don't want to be out of compliance with the bylaws. Our next meeting, which is actually the next topic is scheduled for— anyone have it handy? December 5th. Okay. So we've got 3 months to see if we can— for the district to see if they can get us back to 7, which would be great. Okay, so that does take us to 5/7. Our next meeting is December 5th. Anybody know— now that they have a conflict, are we still looking good for 12/5? Okay, excellent. Okay. Okay, so now we're on agenda topics beyond the usual things, and I've noted 2 already, which I can review. But does anyone have— I know Janet has one to add as an agenda topic that she asked me to agendize for tonight, and I forgot. So it'll come— it'll be on for the next meeting. And, and I'm not sure it needs to be after our conversation today, but— oh, I'm already on, sorry. Um, there was a, a letter that went out, um, that was received from the grand jury, the civil grand jury report. And I was just curious, being it prefaced this committee, I was curious if we were, um, interested in, um, hearing about where it is in the process, because I know when it goes out it needs to be responded to by the district. And all I'm curious is to, um, if it got responded to and, um, where it is in the, in the process. Um, I have no feeling one way or the other on it other than the fact— just getting an update on it. An update. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I So there is— I'm looking at it here. There was a grand jury report that came out, San Mateo County. The date is roughly July, was it? June 26th, something like that. Assessing and reporting internal controls in San Mateo County agencies and school districts. And Redwood City was one of the school districts that was mentioned in here. And I, I don't want to paraphrase it. But I think what Janet is saying is let's just hear what the issue was and how the district responded as the agenda item. That's it. We don't have to pass judgment on it one way or the other. No. Okay, I've noted that. I also have the specific item of reviewing the Sage half-million-dollar solar for the next meeting. I added one here, which is for us to get a refresher training on when— what are the rules around no-bid contracts in general in for school districts. So those 3 topics— is there anything else that anyone would like to add to the next meeting agenda? I mean, I think we'll probably get an update regardless. Yeah, I'll keep that on the agenda, so that will be there. Yep. Um, as it relates to the— uh, Potentially having like a, a threshold dollar amount if there's something that goes over on the no bids to see. Yeah, just to see additional backup on pricing specifically. Okay. So separate from what might be legally required, I think you're suggesting the discussion would be about, do we want to set a threshold for reporting to the CBOC? Yeah. When something Uh, beyond this quarterly report that we get already, you're saying? Or— yeah, well, not just the dollar amount, but like, the, the, like, benchmarking to validate not having competitive bids. Okay. Uh, and maybe details around when we would get details, you're saying? Yeah, like if, if PS was, you know, ordered for solar, what did it fail? Just generally. And I want a clock that talks. And a talking clock. Got it. Okay, anything else for next meeting agenda? As a reminder, we'll be, be covering the July, August, September time period at our December meeting. All right, I think we're done then. Motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Aye. Adjourned. Thanks, everyone. Good, good.",
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      "text": "There you go. Figured out the hard part. Yeah, so there we go. So good evening. As CBOC mentioned my name is William Tunick. I'm an attorney with RCSD. I work with the district on a variety of issues, actually a variety of districts, including on CBOCs. And so I know there had been a question, and we actually have seen this question from CBOCs at other districts as well, as far as legal counsel for CBOCs independent of district legal counsel. And so I want to just kind of talk to you a little bit about when we've looked at it from our analysis and why we've come to the conclusion we have, and then happy to answer any questions on it as well. You know, the first place, obviously, when we have a question like this, we start by looking at the statute. So looking at the Education Code provisions that, that require CBOCs, what do they say about this, if anything? And the short answer is they don't. What the CBOC statute does talk about, obviously, is the duties of the CBOC. It talks about different types of activities that CBOCs may engage in in order to fulfill those duties. The closest it gets is talking about technical assistance to be provided by the district. That's in 15280. But it doesn't specifically call out legal counsel, or even actually, I don't think the word legal shows up anywhere in the CBOC statutes at all. And that's in contrast with, if you look other places in the Ed Code, when you talk about school districts, other legal entities that are across, that exist across the state. For the most part, when the legislature, whoever's drafting the statutes, in this case it was the voters, want an entity to be able to have legal counsel it's going to get called out in the statute. So school districts specifically can do it. Also, the things you usually see if an entity is going to have independent legal counsel is, A, that it exists as a legal entity independent from any other body, the ability to sue or be sued, as well as an independent source of funding. Those would be the types of things that you would usually associate with an entity that had its own legal counsel. And again, for CBOCs, you don't see any of those things. present. So that all of those things are suggesting that it wasn't contemplated by the statute when it was enacted by the voters. The other piece of that is looking a little bit at what the duties of the CBOC— and actually, I should— let me just stop and, and say one thing. I mentioned the technical assistance piece. I know that's been a question as well. Does that include legal assistance? And I think it does to some extent. For example, when the district is helping the CBOC post agendas, conduct meetings, there's going to be questions about the Brown Act, for example. That would be a place where the district would be providing technical assistance that would have a legal perspective to it, I guess you could say, as far as the operation of the CBOC. But that's again the district providing technical assistance from its legal counsel in a lot of ways, the same way that when you have questions about expenditures or the bond program and you're looking for technical assistance, that is also going to be coming from district staff. So a little bit of a parallel there. But the second thing also that we took a look at is what are the duties of a CBOC, right? So the CBOC's duties are to inform the public concerning the expenditure of bond funds. Again, as I mentioned, the word legal does not show up in these statutes. So the CBOC statutes don't talk about the CBOC making legal determinations per se. And I think it's kind of interesting because if you look at the statute structure, there's another article of this same chapter that's right above the part that talks about CBOCs, and that's the part that talks about taxpayer actions. And so there's actually an entire separate part of the code that talks about if there is a legal question to be determined, that a taxpayer can bring a challenge to a court, and the court is the one that makes essentially a binding legal determination. So the voters adopted that and the CBOC statutes at the same time. There seems to be a pretty big distinction between the idea that legal issues go to the court. Non-legal issues are what the CBOC is concerned in. So that also suggests that the need for independent legal counsel wouldn't be there because that's not really within the duties of what the CBOC would be looking at. And then the last thing, and, and this is more a question about even if it's possible, is that as attorneys, we're subject to rules, professional rules of conduct, as far as how we operate and duties of loyalty and confidentiality to clients. Those get really tricky, if not kind of impossible to pull off, where you're being— when an attorney is being paid by one entity and has a client as a different entity. And those 2 entities may or not have interests that align, there becomes an ethical problem for the attorney as far as how to make that work, and sometimes you can't make it work. So that's the other thing that would suggest that where you have, again, a group that doesn't have— isn't an independent entity, doesn't have its own independent funding source, that it isn't really possible to have the district paying for quote-unquote independent counsel because you'd run into that ethical problem that the attorney would be placed in. So You know, again, and we've looked at this several times. Every time we kind of come back to the same place, which is, you know, all of those reasons suggest that there really isn't provision, and maybe couldn't be a situation where you'd have independent legal counsel for CBOC. But really, the place of, of the attorney when it comes to CBOC is, is through that technical assistance provided by, by the district if there's kind of legal technical assistance type questions. So that's sort of how we've come at it and looked at it for a few districts. But I'm happy to to answer any questions that the committee may have.",
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      "text": "if— sorry, I didn't want to answer your first question. Yeah. Well, first of all, I disagree whether or not the CBOC itself could actually be sued because that's a different issue. But I'd also point out your bylaws say— and I think they're just reflecting what the law requires— is that the district's insurance covers the CBOC and its members. And also there's a duty to defend in there. So anything you do in your official capacity almost like a, like this, like the Board of Trustees, same thing. The districts, I mean, by the, for the bylaws, you've got insurance and defense there. I mean, it's, it's in a lot of ways similar to, like, districts will have LCAP committees or something else that's required by law to exist and be sort of run by the district. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's still within that district umbrella.",
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      "text": "Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. Jennifer Gibb, program manager for Measure S. We have been working on a couple things since last time we met. The board had approved a financial system for Measure S, so that has been implemented, and we're working in the background to reconcile that with the district system. And so at a, a future Bond Oversight Committee meeting, we'll be able to bring the reports as presented with expenditures through that system. So that's an update on our financial system. The next This is the Master— or excuse me, our current projects that we are working on. So the district's done a lighting assessment. Those are complete. And we'll be bringing— staff will be bringing options for procuring those improvements in the September board meeting. Power studies are being done in regards to the availability of all existing sites as we look forward to doing the HVAC upgrades. at the district-wide. And then we're also continuing to review for additional quick starts. An item that was brought up at the board meeting last night, for those of you that attended and/or watched, was doing some HVAC improvements. So we are looking at that as, again, a quick start project. We're doing the electrical assessments as well as working for an HVAC solution. Another opportunity is window tenting as we look for even a quicker quick start, right? So that's something that we're going to be working with staff to implement in the next coming weeks to limit and/or try to reduce additional heat in our classrooms. So that's for our active projects. In regards to the Master Plan—",
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      "text": "And yeah, but those 2 or 4 of them will have 4 or 5 more the following summer and 4 or 5 more the following summer after that. So when we look at HVAC as a whole, we're looking at a 4- to 6-year process in order to address the needs at all of our school sites, uh, for a number of reasons. One, the, the size and scope of projects, the short window in the summer now, right? We only have 60-odd days with no students or staff on campus, right? Uh, we have a lot of campuses that are used during the summer, so we'll have displacement of those campuses when those go there. So there's a lot of moving parts to take into account where, yes, we want HVAC as soon as possible, but that's not in the near, near term. What we're talking about with some of this is doing work on buildings for mitigation of heat that we can do quickly, right? One was the window tint or the film, that type of thing. There was discussions of painting the asphalt white. I mean, A number of ideas came out last night that can be implemented sooner, right? And so we'll have to look at those on a case-by-case basis, on a classroom-by-classroom basis. If we have a classroom that never exceeds 65 degrees right now because of the big oak tree that's shading it all day, we're probably not going to focus any time or energy on there, but we will focus on the classroom that gets up to 89 on a regular basis, right? So we're going to have to pick and choose. Martin and his team, along with VPCS, along with QKA, are going to have to go and evaluate some of these rooms, one based on what we know as a district, to what we hear from teachers and students and staff, to go and address certain rooms to make this a plausible project now where there's benefit now. So some of those temporary solutions might be there for 5+ years. Before that school is actually air-conditioned ready, right? And, and others will be sooner than that. And that's the work with Jen and QKA and the Facilities Master Plan team. We haven't thrown out the 2015 Master Plan. It's still there. So we have a semblance of that as we start the planning for the new master plan that will be done in phases across the next 5 to 6 months. Uh, and so we'll know that at School X— I'm not going to name a school because somebody will hold me to it— uh, that we're going to put a new two-story building there. We expect construction to start in the next 12 months, let's say. We're not going to go put new HVAC units and new roof on that building, but we may use some mitigation measures for heat in the interim because we're going to go through— and the rest of this, we're going to go through the spring, summer. Yeah. And potentially up to another year before that construction project starts. So we're taking all that into account in the planning. We are, as was mentioned last night, we are going to test this on some rooms immediately and come back with some more options for—",
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      "text": "Okay, fire away. And you're not derailing. I'm a pleasure of the committee, so happy to answer any questions, and those are definitely important. Um, so for the Master Facilities Plan process, um, we— let me just tell you what we've done to date. Um, the teams, QKA, Van Pelt, and the maintenance and operation teams walked all of the sites evaluating them, um, for overall condition, uh, building infrastructure, finishes, restrooms, all the counts, um, you know, toilet count, all of those types of things. Um, condition of the infrastructure, accessibility, parking, drop-off, pickup, uh, playgrounds, fields, um, and then, um, any other opportunities that were, um, of note. As, uh, Rick mentioned, if the school site has an opportunity that they note maybe in the maintenance, um, work order system, that we're aware of that. Um, and we've also done, um, solar array, um, location identifications and, um, potential, um, opportunities and/or challenges with future positioning of Master Facilities Planning. So we've looked at those as well. Um, we had our first educational specifications meeting on the 20th of August with, um, the leadership team, and then, um, we've been, um, working on planning each individual site committee meeting with the site committees that are established at those sites. So that's what's to come. We'll be working, um, with the school site administration and then their, um, um, formed site committee representative, representative of their, um, school and school community, um, to have meetings with the Master Facilities Planning team, our team, and district staff to garner input in regards to the needs and/or opportunities they see at their site. Um, we'll be doing that over the next, um, month, and in that, we will also be working with them on the educational specifications of how they, um, utilize their space to, um, to teach the students, right? The pedagogy. So, um, we're working on that. Um, we'll be coming, um, out. You'll be seeing a survey as well, not only to the site community, but also to the community at large. Um, that will be available and be sent out, um, via all social media and/or district website, any opportunity that the district's communication team can get out, um, working with, um, local paper, etc. Um, we'll also be having, um, open forums for the community at large, not just the school community, because it's important to the board through this process that we also get input from all of our constituents. So those will be held in person and via Zoom at both different times so that we can make sure that if you aren't available to attend in person, you can jump on the Zoom. So that's kind of where we're at right now in the Master Facilities Planning process. I'm happy to answer any questions.",
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      "text": "Okay, good to know. Thank you. Yeah, any other questions for Jennifer? What architecture firm was—",
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      "text": "All right, thanks, Martin. Uh, so that takes us to 5.4. We're going to go into Measure T now in more detail. Um, and just as a reminder, this meeting is covering the fiscal period of April April 1st through June 30th. So the last quarter of last fiscal year, and then at our next meeting, which we'll talk about shortly, we'll be reviewing the fiscal period we're in right now, which is July 1st through end of September. So we're looking back at April through June. List of bond expenditures since the last meeting is 5.4 million. 4.1, but there were none. Is that correct? Oh, no, I'm sorry, that's the Excel spreadsheet, right? Okay, sorry, I didn't see it there. Yeah, so there was the spreadsheet sent out. There are 27 line items on the 541 attachment. Does anyone have any questions about those? You're good. Okay. Right. We can always go back, but let's move on then to 542, contractor change orders during the period. This is the one where there were none, correct? Okay. So nothing to review on 542. Takes us to 543, list of no-bid contracts in the period. Anybody have questions on that one? Okay. Um, so I—",
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      "text": "Um, as it relates to the— uh, Potentially having like a, a threshold dollar amount if there's something that goes over on the no bids to see. Yeah, just to see additional backup on pricing specifically. Okay.",
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