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  "text": "that we do a little brief intro of everyone. We could just go around and, and say your name, uh, and if you have a particular role that you represent, um, of the roles that we need to fill, uh, share that. And, uh, if you want to say anything else about why you're here, why this is important, I think that would be great. Uh, before we do that, let me just recognize that we have, um, in addition to the committee members in the room, we have a number of guests here from the district. We have John Niblin from the San Mateo County Council, our attorney's office, who's going to speak. I think you're the first item on the agenda after we get through this and the approval of the agenda and the public comment, if there is any. So thank you, all of you who come and support the committee and the, the work that we're trying to do here. So let me start out. I'm Carl Anders, and I'm serving as the chair right now. And I'm, I think, coming up on my second year on the committee in the fall, if I have that right. And I joined the committee. I have 2 children, a 3rd grader and a 5th grader in the district. And I remember distinctly my application that I sent to Dr. Baker, and I wrote in there, as a marketing person by profession, I said, look, we're doing all this great work in the district. Building new buildings, and like, how can we do a better job of getting the word out to the taxpayers of how their money is being spent? Because we're all— as if, if you're a taxpayer here, your, your money is being spent, and for the next, I don't know how many years, will be on this great work. And so I said, I think I can help on the committee with my marketing background, and that's what brought me to this. So, and happy to be participating. So, Vice Chair, I'm Jen Gibbons. Oh, don't forget to turn on your mics too when you're speaking. If you Yeah, that one. If it's red, you're on. Yep. Thank you. I'm Jen Gibbons, Vice Chair Committee. I have a first grader and a fourth grader at two schools in the district currently. I'm— can you hear me? Now we know why we pay you the big bucks. We've done this before. I'm a civil engineer turned construction project manager, currently working at Stanford University. So familiar with construction, infrastructure upgrades, renovations, demolitions, and ground up. Hi, I'm Cameron Hoffman. I have 2 students in the district right now, a 6th grader and a 3rd grader, and I also have a little guy who will likely matriculate into the district. And I serve on the committee in the role of being in school leadership. So I'm on a site council of a district school as well. Great, thank you. We'll just work our way, I guess, this way if you want to go next, Carolyn, and then come back around. My name is Carolyn Chow. I don't have any children in the district, but I am a lifelong Redwood City resident. Very proud to be part of the, the the district, went to school in this district, so, uh, this is very meaningful to me, and I'm very happy to be part of this, uh, committee. And you are our taxpayer representative? Yes, I am a member of the taxpayer organization, so that is my role. Thank you. Um, I'm Jaipal Sahai. I'm a citizen in the Redwood City District. I've got two kids in the school district. I've got a a fourth grader and a second grader. I'm on site council at one of the schools in the district. I'm also, um, a volunteer soccer coach, so, for, for one of the schools in district. So it's an honor to be on this committee. It's nice to see where taxpayers' money is going, and, um, hopefully we're doing better for our community. Hi, I'm Carl Metz. I'm, uh, the member at large on the committee, and I also have two children, one within the district, one in TK and then the other in 3rd grade. And my background is in architecture and program management and asset management. So I— when this announcement came out, I thought this would be a great opportunity to help the community. So thanks for letting me on. Hi, I'm Rodney Leach. I'm— I have 2 children, one a 2nd grader and one a preschooler entering TK. In the fall. Uh, I'm also an architect, so I'm interested, you know, in seeing how the, you know, the process on the, on the public side, and have a little bit of background in this as well to help. Thank you, Jacqueline. I think you're our last member. Sí, gracias. Mi nombre es Jacqueline Rodriguez. Estoy contenta de participar aquí representando pues a los padres de la comunidad escolar de Redwood City. She says she's happy to represent the parents. She says she's happy to represent the parents of Redwood City. Me gusta participar en estas reuniones porque conozco de la importancia de involucrar a los padres y que conozcan cómo se gestionan los recursos para la mejor educación de los niños. ¿Me puede ayudar? Sí, sí, sí. She says she has an 8th grader and a student in preschool, and she— ¿Qué más dijo? Que estoy feliz que los She's happy to participate so that parents can know how the resources are spent. Great. Well, welcome. I think this is your first meeting, so thank you. First, first in person. Yes, thank you. Yes, thank you. Okay, did we miss anyone? I think we got the entire committee because we did have a resignation, and it's worth mentioning Raquel Gonzalez, who was a committee member, did submit her resignation earlier this week. She said she was really busy with a new job and wouldn't be able to serve. So that leaves us with 8 seated members and still 11 I think allocated members from the board. So I believe we have on the agenda later to talk about filling out the rest of the committee. And so we can hear if there's any update from the district on that. So I just want to remind the public, if there's any public, that we are very much representing the public here. It's our job to provide public oversight on the spending of the bond money, and we're very much open to public input, and we're happy to take it during the public comment section that's coming up, but also in any of the sections where we have discussion or action. We always welcome the public input, and I know personally I'm happy to receive it offline as well as I'm sure the other committee members would be. So I always want to emphasize that we represent you out there, and so If you're listening, please share your questions or, or comments. The last thing that I want to do is just quickly remind— since this is, I think, the first time we've had all of the committee members together in person— what our duties are. And we're going to talk about the revised bylaws here in a minute. But from our current bylaws, I think it's worth just reminding the committee of why we're here and what we're supposed to do. So I'm just going to read through the, some of the highlights. So bear with me. In the bylaws, it says the committee shall ensure that bond revenues are expended only for the purpose described in the Constitution. I am paraphrasing a bit. So that's number 1, and ensure that the bond revenues are not used for teacher and administrative salaries or other school operating expenses. So those are the 2 duties listed. The, the bylaws then go on to say that there are activities that the committee can carry out, or should carry out, as part of these duties, and they are to receive and review copies of the annual independent financial and performance audits. And that's actually going to happen tonight, or you have them already, but we'll review them tonight for the last fiscal year. Inspect school facilities and grounds. Receive and review copies of any deferred maintenance proposals or plans by the district, and then finally review efforts by the district to implement cost-saving measures in these 5 areas. One, professional fees. Two, cost of site preparation. Three, joint use of core facilities. Number 4, efficiencies in school site design. You architects out there. And then number 5, the use of cost-effective and efficient reusable facility plans. Okay. So those are the activities that we as a committee can carry out in order to ensure the bond funds are properly spent. So hopefully that's a helpful refresher. Actually, John's going to do a presentation and take questions on maybe a little bit more detail on general CBOC responsibilities coming up here. So the agenda is a bit new. We've got some new topics on there. So why don't we go right into Item 2 on the agenda, which is the agenda review. Committee members, you have the agenda in front of you. Does anyone want to propose any changes to tonight's agenda? All right, no changes heard. Let's move to the approval of the agenda. Do we have a motion to approve the agenda? And a second. Okay, all in favor of the approval of tonight's agenda? Aye. And anybody against? Okay, so we have approval on tonight's agenda, which takes us then nicely into Section 3, which is our public comment section. So this is if anyone here in the room or on Zoom would like to share anything with the committee. That's not on the agenda tonight, uh, we certainly would be welcome to hear it. Any public comment, Olivia? Anyone on Zoom? I would say that it's probably not the time for a committee member to bring that up, but we can certainly— I think we'll have opportunities to share those during some of the updates that are coming. Thank you. Is there anyone on Zoom, Olivia, that's got their hand up, or— no? Okay, wishful thinking. All right, so with no public comment, then we can move into item 4. We've got 2 guest presentations tonight. We've moved these up to earlier in the agenda so we can be respectful of our guests' time. So John Niblin from the San Mateo County Council's office is here. And John did a presentation for the Board of— excuse me, sorry, Janet— the Board of Trustees a few weeks ago on the responsibilities, roles, and responsibilities of the CBOC. And so it was appropriate certainly to have John come and do an overview of that, because I've shared it with all of you. So hopefully you've seen it, and take any questions from the committee members where John's expertise— and you probably work with many CBOCs across the district. I'm sure you'll share some of your bona fides here with with us. But fire away, John. The floor is yours. Thank you so much, and I really appreciate the, the opportunity to be here this evening. I am John Niblin. I'm, I'm the county attorney. You know, I— it's kind of interesting. About 22 years ago, I started in the county council's— county attorney's office. It was the county council's office when I started. And during those 22 years, I've had the opportunity to represent, I think, just about every school district. No, I think I can say definitively every school district in the county in one capacity or another, and the County Office of Education and the County Board of Education. So I've thought pretty deeply about a lot of the stuff that school administrators, and frankly, that is what CBOCs think about. I've had the opportunity to work with several CBOCs, primarily in the context of providing information about the roles and responsibilities of CBOCs and how CBOCs sort of interface and collaborate with the district to discharge their mandate of keeping the public informed of progress and and district compliance with bond programs and, you know, constitutional requirements around bond programs. So it's a privilege to be here. I'm a Pacifican myself. I actually have interest, deep interest in the kind of work you all do, being as, you know, we support a number of, you know, historically supported a number of bond programs in, you know, in Jefferson Union, in Pacifica School District. So something I spend a lot of time thinking about and caring about myself. So I really appreciate the work that you all do. Here in this regard. Um, can I pause you for one sec? Is there a way to get John on camera, or is it not working? Not with the presentation. They're not. Okay, so none of, none of the cameras will record anyone this evening, is that— but we are getting the audio recorded. Okay, great. Thank you. You'll have to just, uh, bear with not being able to see my photogenic, um, presence. So I'll, you know, people will suffer for that, I'm sure. Um, So folks have had the opportunity, I know, to see this presentation. I do intend to move through it actually pretty quickly. But, you know, we've allocated a relatively limited amount of time, which I, you know, I think is fine. I, I would— if you all have questions, I'd encourage you to— maybe I could stop here even initially and see if anybody has any kind of predicate questions they'd like to hit. Somebody, I think it was your chair, in fact, sent me 4 or 5 questions that I've kind kind of got loaded here and ready to go. But again, I'm happy to sort of work through kind of death by PowerPoint here, or alternatively hear questions, or maybe both. I guess what I'll do then is I'll get started, and then as questions come up, we'll go ahead and hit them, and I'll, I'll go ahead and deal with the questions I have sort of on the list here at the end. So maybe, you know, I don't have a clicker, so maybe somebody could help me whoever's got access to it to advance the slides. Does anybody have access to it? Excellent. Prior to Prop 39, you know, I— the world was different prior to Prop 39. Prior to Prop 39, in order to pass a school bond for facilities, you needed a two-thirds vote. Prop 39, at the very highest level, changed the voter threshold to bring the requirement down to 55%, you know, in order to pass a bond. You can see that prior to Prop 39, it was pretty hard to pass a bond, relatively speaking. It was about 54% from 1986 to 1999. So, so again, it wasn't an easy lift, and school facilities suffered. Next slide. So what Prop 39 did, as I was noting, was that it, it actually amended the California Constitution to lower the the threshold, and this is an option for school districts. School districts don't have to use the Prop 39 route, but when they do, it lowers the threshold constitutionally to 55% for approval of bonds that are used for school construction. And let's see here. There are certain limits that, you know, apply when you're dealing with these 55% Prop 39 bonds that speak to sort of the the amount of indebtedness or specific limits on the amount of indebtedness that you can incur under a Prop 39 bond goes to really sort of the total amount of assessed valuation of property within the district. I believe it's like 1.25% or, or something like that. And then, as you all are sitting here embodying it, the Prop 39 imposes certain oversight provisions that don't apply to other kinds of bonds. So next slide, please. So the effect on the ground has been, as I think you all who are close to it know, the effect on the ground has been to increase pretty dramatically the passage rate for school facility bonds. Took a look as I was putting this together a few weeks ago at EdSource, and I, you know, I ascertained that 71 out of the 101 school bond measures that were on the ballot in November of '22 passed. So that's again primarily a function of the, of the lower threshold that exists under the law. Next slide, please. So, you know, one of the— again, you know, speaking to sort of these special oversight measures that apply in Prop 39, what is required when a Prop 39 bond passes is the governing board of the school district establish and appoint members to an independent Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee. And it's supposed to happen within 60 days of the certification of the election results. And so that's why you all are sitting here. Next slide. And as, you know, your chair had kind of gone through, and as you all had sort of kind of gone through yourselves as you introduced yourselves, you need to have at least 7 members on a CBOC, and these members need to be drawn or supposed to be drawn pursuant to the Education Code from various constituencies. Business organizations. You can see senior citizens organization, bona fide taxpayers organization, parents or guardians of students. So I heard many of you sort of identifying with these various constituencies that you're required to have on your, on your board. Next slide, please. John? Yes. How frequently do you see CBOCs with more than 7 members? Not infrequently. I do, I do note that it's oftentimes hard to pull together volunteers who were willing to serve on CBOC. So it's not infrequent that the goal is to have more than 7. Many, many districts are fortunate to get 7. So it's— I'd say it ranges. I think aspirationally many districts are looking for more than 7, but it ranges. And again, it's— a lot of it is constrained by getting volunteers to do it. So here we go. The composition of the CBOC again. Terms of 2 years. They're staggered so that you don't have everybody going off at the same time. No more than 3 consecutive terms, and my hat's off to anybody who, who would serve that long. It's, it's actually a— I know, a lot of work. And that your term— the 2-year terms begin as of the date of appointment by the Board of Trustees. Next slide, please. So what is that CBOC? What are they supposed to do? Your chair actually did a really good job going through the, through the bylaws that you have there. Your bylaws actually track really nicely Prop 39 in the Education Code. But at the end of the day, I just— like your chair said, the purpose of the CBOC is to inform the public concerning the expenditures of bond revenue. This is really about creating public confidence, and that's, that's again part of the trade-off for that lower voting threshold, is to have this independent body of folks who are overseeing the, the work of the, of the district with respect to the bond program. So active review and report on the proper expenditure of taxpayers' money, advising the public as to whether the district is in compliance with the constitutional mandates with respect to this, the expenditure of the funds. So that's all a specific mandate. That's what the CBOC is required to do. Next slide. So I went through, and I kind of tried to pull out some of the active verbs that are used in the Education Code provision that I just had up there, and it's about informing, reviewing, reporting, advising. It's that oversight function, and I want to distinguish that from kind of the, the role of the district, which is ultimately to approve, to authorize, to endorse, deny, reject. Those are— that's the district's role in sort of, in sort of that. So One of the, one of the arts in this area is, is sort of ensuring robust oversight while respecting the lanes of sort of district and district staff. So, so I think this is always an important thing for us to kind of bear in mind, is making sure that we respect the CBOC's role in ensuring robust oversight while, you know, letting the district actually do the work itself. Next slide. So what requirements are we talking about specifically in terms of the, the Constitution? What does the Constitution say? Bonded indebtedness incurred by a school district. It's for the construction, reconstruction, rehabilitation, replacement of school facilities. And this is really to distinguish it from maintenance, ordinary kind of ongoing operations. Got to use the money for these things— construction, reconstruction, etc. Next slide. Yes, ma'am. In understanding exactly what falls into the difference between the construction and maintenance. Yes. Is there any specific guidance that the committee is compelled to use, or is it based on case law? Well, it's a really good question. I think there are probably auditing standards that to a certain extent would apply. I mean, are we creating a— on some level, we creating a capital asset. Right, as opposed to— I'm looking for an example that might be useful. You got a roof, for example, that's supposed to last for 20 years, and then kind of 15 years into it you've got a— you've got to do some patching of that roof. You know, I would submit to you that if you patch it and that roof isn't going to last for the remainder of its sort of useful life, that's not the kind of thing that you can charge, generally speaking, to you know, construction, reconstruction. But if you had to tear the roof off and put a new one on, that would be, in my view, that's more— that would be sort of the— if that— I don't know if that's responsive to your question. Where does painting fall on the legal analysis? You know, just plain painting, huh? Of an existing building. Yeah, artistic or painting of an existing building or versus painting of a new structure. I think painting a new structure would be— I think that would be clearly chargeable to the, to the new structure. I think that could be, um, but, but again, this kind of thing, I think ultimately oftentimes accountants and auditors have things to say about all this. My first take would be if you're— you got a new building you're bringing online and you're painting it so that it's ready to go, that would be part and parcel of the bond project in my assessment. Whether when you're painting an existing building, I don't know, I'd probably want to defer to somebody who thinks about that day in and day out, but that doesn't feel like it would be, um, construction. That feels like maintenance. But, but I'd want to sort of reserve ultimate judgment on that. There probably might be additional facts that might bear on that. But generally, that's kind of the distinction I'd be drawing is repair, maintenance versus creating a new, creating a new thing. I mean, this can open up a lot of gray areas, right? Yeah. I think one that's been highlighted by the public is that in order to build a school structure, classrooms needed to be moved into portables. Right. And the portable needed a water dispenser, right? And the water dispenser was charged to the bond, right? But if you just look at the line item says, you know, water, yeah, which we would all agree is not a capital expense. But is it appropriate because that classroom had to be moved to build a new one? Maybe yes. Yeah, there's a certain— there's a certain but-for, you know, test that you might apply. And, and this, you know, maybe we'll talk a little bit more about this towards the towards the end of my, my time here. But you know what kinds of things, because I, I know something that you'd express some concern about or interest in, is what kinds of salary, district salary costs can be, can be charged. And there's a certain, again, a sort of but-for, is this stuff that we, you know, we wouldn't be incurring but for the existence of the bond program, that, that— so the water cooler would probably fit in that sort of, in that, in those parameters. Next slide, please. Well, again, I think it would depend on the nature of the, of the repair, right? Are we talking about a complete rehabilitation of— again, drawing a distinction between patching a hole in the wall. Versus, you know, putting on a new roof, replacing the HVAC, doing major overhauls of things. So, so I think that it's a little bit difficult kind of on the fly to kind of speak to every aspect of those nuances. But I guess all it goes to is there could be some things that are of a scale that they actually would be appropriately charged to the bond, even if they could in some sense be characterized as repair. So I guess I'm saying that would be a longer conversation for sure. But, but I— sorry, I just want to take you back to my question. A longer conversation with whom? Because what I heard was the board, the committee here, the CBOC, should be somewhat deferential to an auditor in determining whether it's a repair, but also that there's nuance and might need some guidance. So where does a committee like this get that legal advice on what is constitutionally compliant? I think we would— you'd be working with district staff. You'd also, in, insofar as quite specific questions were sort of queued up, I do think that you'd probably want to perhaps make sure that you got reference to auditors and maybe counsel. But I don't know, how do you all deal with this kind of in the ordinary course when these kinds of questions come up? Do you have a sense of Excuse me. Yeah, so a couple of different, uh, ways. One is the, the internal reviews for compliance with Prop 39, uh, and then if we even question that, right, we'll go to legal counsel for, uh, determination of the appropriateness of using it for bond funds or using bond funds for, for that, uh, before it comes to the board for consideration. And, and I do know that there are— of course, you all have reviewed them. That's part and parcel of your mandate. There's sort of an annual performance audit and an annual finance audit where I, I believe those kinds of things would be typically looked at. I think there would be sampling to ensure that the various things that are— the various things that end up, you know, charged to the bond program are appropriately being charged to the bond program. So next slide, please. So again, these are additional kind of requirements that the Constitution sets forth with respect to bond programs, or with, with respect to bond programs. And you can see again, constitutionally, you are only to use the you know, proceeds of the bonds for the specific purposes specified in Article 13A. You need a specific— you need to comply with a specific list of facilities projects that are articulated in the bond program. The— we were just referencing the fact that there's an obligation to conduct an annual independent performance audit and an annual independent finance— financial audit, and also a requirement that the district provide responses to findings and recommendations in the financial or performance audit. So those are the again, the requirements that come out of that Prop 39. Next slide. I'm sorry. So, so yeah, on this, on the slide here then, what are the shalls? What, what are the things that the CBOC is required to do? And again, I think your chair pretty, pretty much touched on this. You're required to have committee proceedings that are open to the public and noticed. You're required to issue regular reports, and frankly, those reports have to be issued at least annually. And those reports are required to include a statement about whether the district is in compliance with the constitutional requirements and a summary of your committee proceedings. And you're also required to keep minutes of your, of your meetings, and those minutes need to be made available on the, on the website that's maintained— excuse me— by, by the governing board. Next slide. And again, just to summarize, CBOC is supposed to inform the public, advise the public whether the proceeds are being properly used for the construction, reconstruction, rehabilitation, replacement of school facilities. And this is really just kind of summarizing what I've already sort of covered. So, John, the takeaway from that is if there is is a concern from the CBOC, we advise the public, and we cannot compel the district to do anything. The, the mechanism— well, let me take a step back from that. I mean, the mechanism for expressing, for example, a belief that the, um, that there have been improper expenditures would be the report that, that you all, um, periodically issue. Um, there are remedies actually in the Education Code if, uh, for taxpayers generally, as I, I would note. Um, they're, they're fairly draconian. I would require filing a lawsuit if you think that, uh, if anybody thinks that, uh, any district is expending bond funds unlawfully. You know, there's again provisions in the Education Code that provide for priority litigation to stop that kind of misuse of funds. But that's available to anybody. That's not limited to the CBOC. The CBOC's role is, as you note, or the CBOC's remedy is to articulate concerns in the, in the report that that you all annually, at least annually, would be, would be issuing. A megaphone, not a hammer. I think that's one way of looking at it. Or handcuffs. Next slide, please. Next slide. And again, I don't want to spend too much time on this because your chair already kind of talked through the various things that you may do. But I'd note that you have the authority to receive and review copies of the annual independent performance audit. We talked about that. Receiving and reviewing copies of the annual independent financial audit. Next slide. There we go. You may inspect school facilities and grounds. That would always be done in conjunction with district staff and in coordination with district staff, so that you're not sort of creating, you know, conflicts with respect to what's going on on the site. Copies— receiving and reviewing copies of deferred maintenance proposals and plans. Next slide. And, and again, as your chair noted, reviewing efforts by school districts to maximize bond revenues by implementing cost-saving measures as are listed there. What, what does that last bullet mean? Recommendations regarding the use of cost-effective and efficient facility places. What does that mean that we do? Well, again, reviewing efforts by school districts or to maximize bond revenues by implementing cost-saving measures, including but not limited to recommendations regarding the use of cost-effective and efficient reusable facility plans. You know, I would really— be deferring— in the first instance, I'm not sure that these are plans that are necessarily put together by every district, but if they, if they were, you know, I would be deferring to sort of district staff with respect to what kinds of cost-effective and efficient reasonable facility plans are at issue. I don't know if you've got any experience in particular with that. I can talk about that, and Will or Martin, if you want to jump in as well. Oftentimes when you're looking at major construction programs, there are I'm not saying prefabricated, but predesigned, pre-approved building plans that can be used so you don't go through all the costs of creating that again. Differentiate from Item C, which is about building facilities that can presumably be used for many different purposes. I think— is that how to differentiate those two? Would the joint use be more reference to things you might be doing with— oh, I don't know, another agency? Is that so? If the city, for example, and the district wanted to collaborate on the sharing of, I don't know, athletic fields or, or certain facilities that, again, the city and the school district might want to use jointly. So I think that— and that's a way of reducing cost because you're sharing the cost with another agency. Did that answer your question? I have a question about this. I feel like the language is a little confusing. Review efforts by the school to maximize bond revenues. Through cost savings. Can you explain what that's supposed to mean? I think it really— what do we have to do with revenue? I think it would be more elegantly and more, more accurately read as— it's written the way it's written, but I think the way I would have written it is maximizing the use of bond revenues or maximizing the ability to use it. Sort of, how are ways that you can sort of stretch your dollars, I think, is really what they're trying to say. Um, the revenues are— I agree with you. It's like the word is missing there because it's maximize bond revenues, but buy, and you might say, oh, okay, well, we're going to save money now so that when we issue the next bond in the future, we'll get a better deal and maximize our revenue. I don't think that's what the legislature is trying to say. How are you maximizing the effectiveness of your bond revenue? I think is really what they're— okay, so we're all clear on that. You might call it like, like the value engineering during the design process. I think that's right. I think that's right. It's, it's not the most elegant text, but that's only one of probably thousands of examples. And also Beyond value engineering, uh, you know, it's using our, our bond proceeds in conjunction with other available funding too to make it go further, right? So, uh, it could be like the E-rate program for technology, right? We were able to leverage that with our bond program to do more than we would have with just bond dollars alone. Uh, facilities funding from different areas, different grants, uh, you know, working with PG&E on some of, uh, their cost savings measures that also brought money back into our bond program. That extended the amount of dollars to the point where between all of those measures and interest earned on money sitting at the county treasury, you know, we have exceeded our $198 million authorization for the work that we've been able to do with the bond program in Redwood City. Do you have any examples, John? Let's just take A, for example. So review district plans to to reduce the cost of professional fees. Have you worked with any CBOC who you've seen do this? How have they done it? What have they reviewed? Do you have any tangible examples there? Just picking on the first one. Yeah, I'm just thinking through, are there ways to— short answer is no. I don't think I've ever, like, specifically, you know, been advised of CBOCs that have specifically focused on this. But you need things like architectural fees or engineering fees. You may, you may have some examples. Well, it goes to— reusable facility plans, right? That would reduce professional fees if we were able to use that. If we were building 14 gymnasiums, let's say, and we use the same cookie-cutter approach for that, we would reduce fees along the way for professional services, is one example. So, and on a previous bond— Yeah. But is there a district plan to reduce the cost of professional fees? Because what it says here is the committee will review efforts by the district So there'd have to be something written down to review, right? Of course, you know, good district practice is to do all of these things, but it— are there actual plans written for any of these categories that you're aware of today, Rick? I, I don't know if there's plans written, but I know it's a consideration when we're evaluating projects and moving forward, right? So we might not have a plan that says every project that we're going to do is going to use the same building. But as we start allocating and approving projects, we're certainly looking for cost savings along the way. We're back to the example, if we were going to modernize 2 schools and we're going to put a gym in, standalone gym, we would probably— we would try and leverage one against the other to reduce costs. So I guess just to put a finer point on my question, if we were asking at the next meeting to review the district's plans in these 5 categories, would it be new work that you would have to do to create that presentation, or would such plans already be articulated somewhere that you would just share with the committee? Okay. Hey, um, just to try to take this out of hypothetical, I think in this last— the last bond, um, there were many shade structures constructed for like outdoor lunch and eating areas. Um, was that ever discussed earlier in the bond, like before any of us were on this board, um, about cost savings measures? And if it was, uh, I guess, how, how did that go? Or like what actions were taken to discuss? I would have to defer to Will or Mark on that. That was before my time as well. Uh, so we tried to use what's called a PSAPC, or— Will, is your mic on down there? Just checking to make sure. People will be able to hear you later if needed. So we, we did use what's called a DSA pre-checked plan. So it's a DSA or DSA PC plan. So it's a plan for a lunch shelter installation that's already been through DSA, been reviewed and approved to help expedite and minimize the architect's, you know, design fee and design requirements to execute the project. Yeah, that's a really great example. I've, I've been involved in some projects that where, you know, things are purchased through, you know, group purchase, you know, organizations where you can get stuff that is essentially kind of off the shelf, right? And it's to, to your point, it's already been through DSA, which is time-consuming and expensive if you have to go through rounds of, of comments, etc. So those are, those are really good examples actually of sort of cost-saving measures. So, so to go back to Carl's point, the committee can only really review the planning and the efficiencies here if the Board of Trustees has requested that that information be presented somewhere or accumulated somewhere so that then it could be shared with the committee as well and reviewed. I suppose I, I think that the, the notion of, you know, these kinds of meetings where sort of interests and expectations are kind of shared is, is very helpful, because I think it could give the good staff a real good sort of a sense of the kinds of things you'd like to hear about as we're— as these things move forward. So, so I think this is a super helpful conversation to be having. Next slide. So, and this is what we've talked about already. It's not the CBOC's role in particular to take part in the operating of a district bond program, but the oversight piece is the key. So, so no, no direct you know, directing of staff or contractors. It's really, insofar as there are oversight concerns, they really get routed, I think, appropriately to the, to the Chief Business Official, so that those sorts of lines can be, can be honored. Next slide. Of course, the district has got an obligation without expending bond funds to provide support to this committee, including staff, staff support, assistance with administrative tasks, providing information, etc. So, and again, the key is that it's got to be done without expending bond funds. Next slide. I don't think we need to worry about this. This isn't relevant to you all. Next slide. And Brown Act, you know, actually got a really interesting question that I— maybe I'll just move to, and that's a question of whether or not the Brown Act actually applies to you know, CBOC generally. You know, it's sort of interesting. I took a deep dive into the Education Code just to refresh my recollection before coming over today, and the Ed Code does, in fact, does not say that CBOCs are subject to the Brown Act. It does say that meetings are open to the public and that they are noticed in the same way that the district governing board's meetings are noticed, which is driven by the Brown Act. But, you know, sort of interesting, I, I did a I sort of used the ultimate research tool of Google to try to get a sense of kind of what, what other CBOCs do and sort of what the thinking is on all this. And turns out that most— every agency, frankly, that— and sort of representational associations that sort of deal in this space, including the California Association of Bond Oversight Committees. They have a really good website, by the way, with lots of information. They're of the view, and I, I think they're right, that the Brown Act is, is essentially, is deemed to govern CBOC. It's not explicitly stated. I, but I think it's pretty strongly inferred, and that's certainly the practice that those who work in this area, including those that are very CBOC-centric, are suggesting should apply. So I do believe the Brown Act applies to your meetings. and to, and to your proceedings. That being said, you know, the— I'm sure you all have heard multiple presentations on the Brown Act, but I'll move through it very quickly. Meetings are supposed to be held in an open room, 72-hour notice on your agendas. They've got to go out 72 hours before the meeting. Opportunity for public comment, as you all did today. I didn't have any public commenters, but that's part of your agenda. Rather restrictive rules about sort of the proceedings, the conversations you all have outside of an open meeting. You can't essentially talk to a majority of your membership about something within your jurisdiction outside of an open meeting. So that's, that's at a very high level kind of what we're dealing with there. Next slide. Talked about this already. Next slide. All right. And I think that's it. Any other slides? Okay, and these just additional resources. I was just talking about the CBOC. I think that, like I said, is a pretty good website to give you a sense of what other CBOCs and other people who think a lot about CBOC sort of responsibilities, what they say about, you know, the various questions you might have. I had a couple— maybe I can just move on to some of the questions that I have here, if that's all right, and unless, unless Who's the district's general counsel? I'm the district's general counsel. Okay, so that— so the county counsel is the— is the Redwood City School District's general counsel? That's right. We, we, we provide, uh, counsel to the, uh, to the district, uh, by contract. Uh, we in fact contract with every, uh, school district in the county. Uh, we're— the county is a separate agency, of course, but, uh, but we do contract to, to provide general counsel legal support to the, uh, to the district. The district also has attorneys, I think, probably that they contract for, for other matters as well. But, but we do serve as a general counsel for the district. And let's see here. So one of the questions I had— I'm just going to go ahead and read it— is we're aware that of an AG opinion on charging some district personnel to bond funds. However, the opinion is quite specific that only act— the only activity that can be so expensed is, quote, administrative oversight work on construction projects, end quote. In the opinion, it's pretty clear this means project management to make sure bond funds are well spent, and, and is activity that might otherwise be contracted out by the district at a higher price. The question then is, how broad is it, quote, administrative oversight? This certainly could include a bond project manager employed by the district. How about an accountant who spends some time tracking invoices? How about a maintenance worker who does some work on a new building? Clarity would be helpful. So there is in fact an AG opinion on this. There are AG opinions on, on lots of things. The Attorney General of California, when asked, unlike sort of the courts, when asked, will provide the AG's opinion on various questions that are posed to the AG. And at some point back in 2004, a question was posed to the RCSD. May a school district use Proposition 39 bond funds, bond fund proceeds, to pay the salaries of district employees who perform administrative oversight work on construction projects authorized by voter-approved bond measures? The short answer is yes. And the, you know, I, I think that the, the real issue when you look at what can be charged and not is It really comes to— I'm going to look for some key language here that I think might be helpful. So what we're looking at is work that district staff is doing. It's drawing a distinction from a distinction from administrator and teacher salaries for general school operations. You can't charge that to a bond. So that's really kind of the distinction. Are you doing things that are— that you wouldn't have to do but for the bond project existing. So, you know, sort of ordinary sort of custodial cleaning up, for example, that can't be charged to the bond project. On the other hand, you know, costs that— construction, construction project costs such as material and equipment, architecture and engineering design work, construction worker salaries. As well as project administration costs, work that school districts would not be required to undertake or fund but for the existence of a construction project. Those things can be charged to the bond. I don't know if that's a helpful delineation, but that's, I think, kind of the key language coming out of that decision. Sort of that— or we didn't have the bond project, we wouldn't have to do this stuff. If it's stuff that we're doing because of the bond project, it's chargeable to the bond. I don't know if that helps in terms of a delineation, but that's roughly— I think that at the highest level, that's the best way I can think of to, to sort of crystallize a test. Appreciate that. And I was the one who asked you that question. I asked a similar question to Nathan on the audit report, so he's probably got an opinion to share too. But when you look at the expenses for last fiscal year that are marked as employee salaries or employee district employees, about half of it is the bond project man, or I think it's called assistant superintendent of bond oversight or whatever. Then there's an accountant, and then there's a bunch of maintenance people who did things, right? Right. And so the, the question is, are those chargeable? They're not project oversight, uh, opening a gate so that a contractor can get in or watering a newly planted tree. But to your point, well, they wouldn't have to water that tree if the bond didn't pay for it, or open the gate if the contractor didn't need access. So it This is where we're looking for some clarity, right? And, and sort of the notion, of course, is that this would be temporally limited as well to the time that the construction is taking place. I mean, eventually people are just gonna have to water trees at some point after the project is done. People are gonna have to open gates at some point after the project is done. But if you're opening the gate so that the construction equipment can get in there, you know, it's, it really, Can be a fairly— I hate to use the word again, but can be a fairly nuanced and fact-specific inquiry. I mean, how, you know, 5 years from now it's not going to be appropriate, probably, to charge, you know, sort of a tree watering, notwithstanding those trees came out of a bond, were originally paid for out of a bond. But, but again, that's a little bit of speculation on my part. It's all fact-driven. So that was a, that was an interesting question, and it gave me a chance to jump back into some AG opinions. Committee vacancies. Is there a requirement the district fill open positions required under law? What would define a timely manner? What's the recourse if not done in a timely manner? Since selection appointment is done by the district and board, the committee itself has no way to ensure its own full staffing level. You know, that's true. The, the Education Code is, as I mentioned earlier, was pretty specific about the makeup of the Bond Oversight Committee. You're required to have at least 7 members, and some of them are supposed to be drawn from specific constituencies. Some of the constituencies that are sometimes difficult to, to get are members of taxpayer organizations, and you have that one covered. That one we have. Yeah, sometimes members of senior organizations, members of business organizations that are active in the district. I would suggest that the law contemplates that there'd be an ongoing reasonable effort to fill vacancies of those sort of mandated positions, or to get 7 members if for whatever reason you don't have 7 members. I don't think that the— what the law talks to, if you look at, you know, what are the remedies when somebody, when a district doesn't have a full complement, or it doesn't have folks drawn from the various places it's supposed to have folks drawn from, what the— you could actually, in theory, file a lawsuit and say, hey, the district hasn't, you know, filled up its CBOC. It doesn't have the required members. But it requires that in order to prevail in that kind of lawsuit, and frankly, in order to get past GO on that kind of a lawsuit, you've got to show the district has acted willfully, which is to say that the district has not even tried. It's, it's really kind of, you know, turning up its nose, so to speak, at the requirement. So I would submit that if the district is making a reasonable effort, it's got, you know, it's posted for vacancies on its website, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's working in, in a, in a reasonable way to try to, uh, you know, address the vacancies, then, you know, that's in my view what the law requires. Um, it's, uh, but, but again, it's gonna be fact-specific. What, what kind of things are happening? John? Yes, in the lawsuit that is the remedy, the district is the defendant. That's right. And the plaintiff is in no way required to be the CBOC. It's, it's just any taxpayer in the district, anybody who's subject to paying property taxes in the district. So as part of that, never want to actually get into this in reality, but if the CBOC did desire to file suit against the district, we are a non-funded entity, um, would— who, who would be the legal counsel representing the board? Who would be the legal counsel representing the board? I don't know. Uh, we've never had that kind of a lawsuit filed, but the district would presumably secure some form of, um, some form of counsel. Um, I don't know if the CBOC itself— I, you know, I don't want to get too far into it. Like you said, I, you know, my hope is we'd never find ourselves there. I don't know if the CBOC itself is an agency that would you know, even have a personhood, so to speak, to file suit, um, or standing, or, or standing. Um, well, you're all taxpayers in the district. Yeah, individually you would have a right to bring it. That, that was kind of my question there, but as an organization, we— this organization wouldn't bring it. Yeah, I, I think that's right. So I think he was asking who would fund it. Yeah, the individual who brought it, right? Yeah, right. That That's right, that's right. You, Jitpal, my, my hope would be that again, the, you know, we'd all agree that the district is, you know, doing a reasonable job to try to fill the vacancies. Again, it's a— and the other, you know, the other thing to look at is in the context, it's not terribly unusual to have vacancies. It's just many times challenging to get the people who actually check the blocks to, to serve. Let's see here. We talked about whether the CBOC is a legislative body subject to the Brown Act. I think it's probably an open question. My own sense, though, is the best reading is that it is subject to the Brown Act, as I've indicated. We talked actually some about another question that was oversight of plans versus review expenditures, and this related to the efforts by the school district to maximize bond revenues by implementing cost-saving measures. We actually had— we talked good conversation about that. Yep. And then finally, provide guidance on how to determine if a committee member fills one of these mandated roles: active in a business organization representing the business community located within the school district or the community college district, active in senior citizens' organizations, or active in bona fide taxpayers' organizations. You all were— your bylaws state that, with respect to senior citizens' organizations and bona fide taxpayer organizations, it's— I guess the bylaws indicate that it could be organizations that are at a regional, statewide, or national level. Whereas maybe another possible reading would be that, well, we'd really be more concerned about folks who do those kinds of things at the local level. You know, it's interesting. The Ed Code itself, the Education Code itself, doesn't actually provide any guidance on that point. So I think that, you know, a reading that allows for, you know, sort of involvement at a regional or a statewide or a national level is probably defensible. I would think— I would just offer— this is just me musing at this point— that all things being equal, if you had 2 applicants who were active in, let's say, senior citizens organizations, and one happened to be active in the Redwood City Seniors, you know, organization, and another happened to be, you know, serving at the national— and some national organization, uh, you might prefer the, the local one. Um, but I think either would be qualified to serve. And by you, you mean the district, because they select the members? Yeah, I think so. I was using you in a generic sense, but I That's what I meant. So great. Are there other questions? I know that we kind of zip through this, and it's, it's certainly been interesting and fun to be here. But any— Are you talking about your own report? Is that— Yeah. I think the challenge that we got hung up on last time is none of the, uh, members of that report are no longer on. Oh, I see. So the question, what, what, what are we approving, or what, what, um, how should we qualify that if we, if we do amend it in a way state that to the public so they know that it's being approved much later than or later than Proposition 39? Well, it, you know, I don't think that you necessarily have to have been serving on the, uh, on the committee at the time that the report was prepared in order to approve it. Um, it's sometime— I, I think it might not be a bad thing to include some language that sort of explains, uh, you know, sort of the delay. If you, if, if your sense is that, you know, an explanation is warranted, that certainly would be a an appropriate thing to include. You know, we needed some extra time to review, and owing to the fact that many of the authors of this report are no longer serving on the committee, you know, it took us some time just to go through and confirm that we're comfortable with the findings and the right, you know, the findings and the conclusions set forth. So, so I think something like that would be appropriate for sure. Yep. Well, great. Again, it's really great to see you all. I want to thank you all for, for having me and for your service here. I know it's really important stuff that is going on here. So if there aren't any further questions, I'll, I'll just go ahead and take my leave. Thank you, John. Appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah. All right, great session. We're moving on to 4.2 on the agenda now. Nathan Edelman is here from Eide Bailey, the auditor who did the financial and performance audit performance audits for last fiscal year, and everyone has received a copy of those. They were presented to the board, I think, last month, roughly, and will presumably make a substantial portion of our report on the previous fiscal year that we need to author and approve. So Nathan is here to talk briefly about the audits and answer any questions that anyone on the committee has about it. So thank you for coming. Yeah, all right. Well, yeah, good evening everybody. Um, my name is Nathan Edelman with— hear my pronoun? Can you get the— there we go. There you go. All right, well, my name is Nathan Edelman with Ida Bailey, and I am the independent external auditor. So I actually do have slides, but I guess I never, I never sent them in, so they'll just have to hear me talk for a little bit, but I'll just kind of go, go through. I first just want to define what is the, the scope of the audit. It's easy to say audit this, audit that. Auditors look at anything and everything, but— excuse me— but first of all, first, just the scope of the audit, our responsibility as auditors versus the district's, you know, management's responsibility. The, the district is responsible, management The folks that run the bond program, they are responsible for ensuring that, you know, funds— the bonds are used for their intended purpose, that internal controls are, are working as, as expected, and in fact, you know, controls are actually established. So to the extent that there's a, a good audit or, or a bad audit, or, you know, non-compliance, or, you know, really for anything, it is management's responsibilities as well as, you know, they get, they get credit when there's you know, good things to happen. Our responsibility as, as auditors is really to just ask questions and then report back in the form of our audit report. We have a— there's a few reports in the, in the packet that we'll walk through. But again, it's just we are reporting back. It's just, here's what we found as a result of the audit. That goes to the CBOC, that goes to the Board of Education. So You actually have— there's, there's 2 audits in the packet. One is a set of financial statements. That's almost as if the bond program, the Measure T bond program, is its own little entity. It's a balance sheet. There's an income statement that is as of that, you know, June 30, 2022 fiscal year end. The actual numbers themselves may not be super relevant to you today, given, you know, we're now in like May of 2023, but it becomes the historical record of, you know, the results of operations for the year. And to the extent that there's no audit adjustments, then that does mean that the information that was previously presented to, to you folks is, you know, accurate. It's good information. But the scope of the audit with the— of the financial statements is really to, you know, answer the question: do these financial statements comply with the governmental accounting rules. You know, there's this GASB out there. If you're familiar with, you know, companies, you have FASB. There's the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, and it talks about how governments present financial statements. So our job there, make sure that those financial statements are complete and accurate and that they comply with all of those governmental accounting rules. And then on the performance audit And actually, before we get to that, the, the results, the, the opinion— there's a one-page, maybe actually two pages. There's a, there's a couple audit opinions within the financial report. Those have the firm letterhead, and then they kind of go on for a while. But it, it's what we call an unmodified or clean audit opinion. It really just says that those financial statements, they comply with those governmental accounting rules. So That's really the best opinion that you can have. There's another opinion kind of towards the back, in accordance with government auditing standards, which says that when you do an audit you don't test the controls, but you ask questions, and to the extent that what's called internal control deficiencies, if those are identified, those are required to be reported out, whereas, you know, in a non-government audit, such as, you know, of a random commercial company, you may have internal control deficiencies that are identified. Those may be discussed with management, and then that's the end of it. They don't go anywhere after that. But with governments, those are required to be reported as audit findings. But, you know, there were none that are reported, so that's also a clean opinion. But just to be clear, the, the scope of testing of controls is not testing controls to identify deficiencies. It's if deficiencies are identified as a result of us doing the audit, those are required to be reported out. And there's a important distinction there. So then, for the performance audit, it's probably what's more, more relevant or more interest to this group. The scope of the performance audit, and on a high level, it's not, not the accounting records, but it's taking what went through the accounting records, what expenditures were charged to the bond program for the year, and then asking the question is, were these things— are these allowable for for the bond program. So specifically, the scope of the performance audit is to ensure, one, that you have listed projects. Are the projects that are charged to the bond program during the year— are those, you know, are those listed projects the kind of towards the back of the— or within, I guess, the body of the Measure T ballot text? It has a lot of language about, you know, construction, renovation, you know, whatever. And then it also lists a number of, of school sites, and has some, some specific projects within there. Question 1 is, you know, are these listed projects? And then 2, are these compatible with, with Proposition 39, which really is kind of similar? But are these construction projects? Are they, are they things that would be allowable for them for the bond program? It actually— and then make sure I don't miss anything here. And then the other thing that we look at, which I know there are— there's questions about this, too. And the— there's, there's salaries that are charged to the bond program, and the scope of the audit is not to look at any and all salaries, but it's to say, well, are these— actually, that last speaker was probably way better at explaining this because it's a legal question more than an accounting question. But that Attorney General opinion— are the salaries that are charged to to the bond program compatible, allowable with, you know, I guess, as per that Attorney General opinion. The scope of the performance audit is something that's set by the state. So the state of California publishes this audit guide every year for all school districts with a lot of things in it. There's an appendix for these Prop 39 construction bond audits, and certainly you can add anything and everything. Anything can be audited, just pay, pay for the cost of it. But you can never go below those, those requirements, which is really what I kind of just laid out, which is, are these compatible projects per Prop 39? Are they, are they compatible with a specific Measure T in this case? And then are salaries compatible with that attorney general opinion? And I'll talk more about that in a, in a minute. But really, the, the conclusion From all of that, you kind of towards the bottom of the performance report, kind of 3 bullet points. One, the expenditures that we sampled in the audit, and the, and the audit works on a sample basis. You don't look at anything and everything. You cannot— it's not feasible to look at 100%. But you pick a sample. It's intended to be representative, and it— the sample that we looked at, there were no exceptions. And so the expenditures Therefore, expenditures charged to those bond programs would— were all allowable per Proposition 39. The salaries that ran through the bond program, at least the ones that— ones that we sampled, those are all consistent with the Attorney General opinion. And so there's really— there's no— there were no deviations, no audit findings as a result of applying those procedures. So kind of the one question— the question that was sent to me Talk more about salaries for, for a second. Specifically, I guess, that Attorney General opinion covers— it says that school districts can charge salaries to the bond programs to the extent that they're performing administrative oversight. So like I said, the last speaker is an actual attorney, and it's really a legal question more than anything else. But the way that we would look at this in the audit— one, we're not going to question We will just— we will take the Attorney General opinion to be correct, because that's what the district has said. Anything that's going to be charged to the bond program, it does need to run through a process. So it's not that one person can say, all right, this is going to be, you know, charged to the bond program, program, and, and therefore it happens. There's a series of internal controls which have to happen, and approvals and decisions that have to happen. Have to be made by the district before an expense can be charged to the bond program. So we're going to, we're going to take it that Attorney General opinion, and that's what the district is using, and all of the other school districts in California too. So there's obvious kind of the way that it was that last speaker said, you know, those salary expenditures would go away at the conclusion of the specific bond program. And to the extent that someone who's, say, doing accounting, or you're charging a portion of a CBO salary to the bond program, well, clearly that work that is being allocated, that work would go away at the conclusion of the bond program. So to the extent that that's actually what we see in the accounting records, we would look at that and say, okay, that, that makes sense. Those would not be called out as, as audit findings. And then the Attorney General opinion talks about folks doing administrative oversight. So that is, you know, accounting. That is, you know, people who are I guess we'll say administrative, but it really doesn't talk about what's not within the scope of that are folks who are doing— here, what did I write here? My notes, uh, actually hard to find them as I talk. But it doesn't really talk about folks that are doing, you know, electrical work or landscaping work, or, you know, kind of what we'd say not as construction. Obviously the district doesn't employ construction contractors, but people that are doing, you know, digging in the ground And there are other sections of Ed Code and, and public contracting code that do talk about, for these very small projects, things that are under— I thought the threshold— I have it written down. Yeah, I think the threshold is $60,000 for these kind of tiny projects, and that would be someone— and these all have to be in directly connected to have a direct nexus to an ongoing bond project, and then the conclusion of the bond project. These things go away. The project is completed, turned over to the district, and it begins use. I think I heard an example of, you know, watering, watering plants, and from the, from the prior speaker. So if that was as a result of just closing out the bond project, let's say we use district maintenance staff, it's a, you know, one-time, non-recurring. We would look at in the audit, look at timesheets, we'll look at whatever support was used by the district. To charge them to the bond program and make sure that we can really agree that, okay, this is a non-recurring one-time— it's the result of, direct result of the bond project. You know, once the project is turned over, students are in the building, it's being used, obviously then, you know, we would not expect to see that watering of plants or landscaping or, you know, cleaning of, of buildings. We would not expect to see that. And to the extent that those remain in the bond program, then those would be called out as audit findings because then you're crossing over from, you know, non-recurring projects, not non-recurring, you know, setting up that capital asset versus running a school district. And those ongoing maintenance costs are all things that would go to the general fund or, you know, wherever would be appropriate for those. So I don't know if I help them on that one or not, but that, that's kind of that, that, that is kind of the, the executive summary of the, the results of the audit, the scope of, of the audit. So with that, I'll turn it over to the group, and to the extent that there's any questions I can try and elaborate further, I'm happy to try. Questions from anyone on the committee for Nathan? Thank you for the intro and overview. I, I have 2 questions. One is, appreciate the update that it's a, a clean report with respect to the internal controls. I know you're talking about like disclosable findings, material weaknesses, significant deficiencies. Did you provide any lower level of feedback on internal controls to the district during your work, like a PIO, program improvement opportunity, or nonconformance, or anything like that? Or— Oh, no. So No. There's a— I don't know if it's, it's in the packet, but there would be this— there's a what's commonly called like a management letter, and that letter would describe things that are, for example, past audit adjustments where it's, you know, things that weren't big enough to create audit findings, and then, but yet they're still discussed with management. Those would all be disclosed there. So there's not really any like any special conversations. So no. Okay. Um, and, and then did you work on the audit, um, for the 2020-2021 period? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is it— and there it's the same. I, I see the note about that it's a clean report. Is that how you would summarize that one as well? Oh yeah, so June 30, 2021, the, the previous fiscal year. Previous fiscal year. Oh, okay. So I don't remember anything. I wasn't ready to, to— I haven't looked at that one for probably a year now. I don't remember anything about 2021. So usually if I remember something, it's not good. Um, I think it's been a— I think— I don't— yeah, I don't remember any issues with any findings with 2021. I'll just go back to this employee salary thing, and I know it's, it's a bit of a hot-button issue because the language in the Constitution is so clear that you can't, you know, spend bond money on administration and teacher salaries. So just want to be crystal clear on that particular one. And we've had a discussion, you know, a couple of viewpoints on that this evening, and thank you for yours. So my question is, you mentioned during your remarks that there's an approval process in place for things that are charged to the bond, and that you would, if in going through and doing your audit, if you were to review that internal control, you would share if there were any deficiencies. Did you in fact review the internal control on charging district personnel time to the bond fund as part of the audit? Okay, yeah. So it's a good question, because there's a distinction between the purpose of the audit and the scope explicitly to identify and then report on control deficiencies, versus if deficiencies are identified during the audit, then those get reported. So we— it— an example of what would be reported as a control deficiency would be, we look at— look, we look at the payroll expenditures, and it turns out there, there are no approvals, or the, you know, the, the employee themself is the approval to charge, you know, their own salary to the bond program. Those would be the kind of, kind of things that would be reported out. But then, to the extent that we don't identify deficiencies through just the process, it makes sense. And then also, if we look at the expenditures and, and there's no exceptions with respect to the compliance, then there would not typically be a path to report a control deficiency. So it's a, it's a little different than an audit where the point of and the scope of the audit would be explicitly to test internal controls. Got it, I think. So can I, can I add to that? Yeah. So, and you used a sample population where you attempted to get across all of the codes and then the material items as well. So the the number of samples you looked at that are relevant to payroll or small payroll, maybe, maybe a very small set of your sample set. Yeah, actually, since— let me see, I don't know if sometimes we have it in the report where it says how much payroll we looked at. I don't see it. Oh yeah, probably the reason why. So if I look at the financial statements for a second, the Total— I don't know, I don't know what page this is in your packet, but page 5 in one of the— in the financial report is the income statement for Measure T, and it shows, for example, we talk about materiality, kind of the audit is somewhat high level in that respect. You cannot— it's not feasible to look at every transaction, but total expenditures were $53 $1.5 million. And so I, I think that, you know, salaries are about $400,000, so it's kind of a small number in relation to the big thing. And then if we're talking about specific transactions, it might be, you know, $5,000 or $10,000. Those are not the kind of things that would be subject— that would be— so we look at payroll, but those smaller transactions are typically not going to be part of the sample. Sorry, and the, the immaterial samples that you pulled based on a risk analysis, you do not put those— pay that payroll category in there because of the risk. No. Okay. So here, better way to explain it. If there's million-dollar construction invoices that are running through the bond program, those are all going to be looked at because you say, well, everything— these are, you know, millions, million here, million there. These are, these are all material. You look at those 100%, and then you have a sample of everything else. And so when there's a $5,000, a $2,000, you know, payroll transaction, those are all going to be shuffled up and then randomly selected. And so they're, you know, every transaction has an equal likelihood of being selected. But when you're talking about— there could be hundreds and hundreds of, of transactions, of which some of that is is payroll. I don't know what percentage would have actually been, been touched as, as part of the audit. Oh, okay. I'm— I think what you just said disagrees with the report on methodology, page 18, where it says that the additional sample set of immaterial transactions was judgmentally selected based on a risk assessment, not arbitrarily selected at random, where they all have an equal likelihood of being in there. So My question is, in that process, is a higher risk assignment given to those kind of, you know, easier to violate areas like payroll? Or is it what you described, where it's any, any additional immaterial transaction is, is just as likely to be looked at? So if there were prior findings, knowledge of non-compliance, then yeah, we'd be able to say, yes, there's, you know, You, you'd look to ensure that those prior findings were addressed. So in this case, you know, there's, there's, there's no control deficiencies about payroll. There's no, there's no non-compliance that were identified previously. So payroll itself would be looked at as— and it's a small item, it's just in relation to those, that $50 million— payroll transactions are going to be looked at just like any other, any other transaction in the bond program. So were there any categories that were judgmentally selected based on the risk assessment? Categories that would have been judgmentally selected. I think the judgmentally selected is referring to those large transactions. No. So if you look at page 18, it's the, it's the dual methodology, right? So you, you pull all material transactions, and then for the immaterial transactions, it's saying that you didn't use a randomized sampling, that you use judgmental judgmentally selected based on a risk assessment. So I'm just trying to understand if this report is accurate that you used that, or if it was randomly selected immaterial transactions just reaching that 67% threshold. Selected all expenditures that were individually significant expenditures, right? So that would be those big items. Then individually significant expenditures were identified based on materiality. Judgmentally selected expenditures based on risks. Oh, okay. I think, huh, by judgmentally selected, you're putting those into buckets, and then within the buckets there's going to be a level of randomness. So payroll, payroll, you can think of payroll as a bucket, I guess, would be a way of, a way of saying it. So you have, you have construction expenditures, and then you have another bucket for for payroll bucket for, for benefits. And so within the payroll bucket, there would be a level of random selection of payroll transactions. But it sounds like only if it were judgmentally selected to be reviewed. Payroll as a category, I think that's what you're— so, so by buckets, you mean object codes? Like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to follow the language of here. Just make it more clear. I know here explicitly for Redwood City We did look at payroll. I'm 100% sure about that because I looked at it just before, so I could respond to the, to the question. Well, I, I, I think maybe a way to kind of get more light on this is what was the risk assessment criteria? Like, what was— what prioritization or criteria method did you use to, you know, have that be judgmentally select. Yeah, risk— the biggest risk criteria would be the size of the transaction. So large transactions are considered more risky than, than small transactions. So the total of, of the $53 million spent last fiscal year, district personnel payroll comes in at about number— I don't know— 18 or 16 on the list when you total it all up, payroll as a total. Sure, there's lots of big things ahead of that, but it's in the top 20, the $400,000 spent on, on payroll. So I think we're just trying to all better understand. Okay, so it's in the top 20. Presumably you looked at it. You just said that you did look at it. So how did you look at it and how did you sample it? Oh, okay. Yeah. That may not be your question. That's why— it's okay. Go ahead. Okay, so I— payroll would have you separate accounting records for, for payroll, and then from there you pick transactions that run through the payroll accounting records. And really the question is, give me the— well, not invoices, but give me the payroll records. Usually there are— for the people that have non-recurring costs, there's going to be timesheets that say this is exactly what they did, and there should be evidence of approval on the timesheets in addition to the fact that they support the actual compliance. And those are the things that we would look at for the, for the payroll transactions. So there were in fact 395 transactions under, under payroll or district personnel cost. So could be, and you know, a couple of them are big because it pays for a whole person, the bond, you know, the assistant superintendent of bond oversight or whatever that position is called. But some of them are $112 water to tree, right? So yeah, and so for those, for those large transactions, if we know who this person is because it's very obvious, such as, you know, , right? I mean, then we probably wouldn't continue to— there's not a whole lot to do. We, you know, the, the salary number makes sense because it ties out to salary schedules. We, we know what they do, and then the remaining payroll after that is probably a very large volume of tiny, tiny transactions. And that's, that's the kind of the random randomness of picking them. Do you know what percent of that population you sampled? Oh, sorry, say that again. Do you know what percent of that population you sampled? Of the total payroll? No, no, that I don't know. Cameron, did you get your questions answered? Because I kind of jumped in with a specific example. No, it's fine. I, I'm still trying to understand if the methodology description reflected on page 18 is accurate, because it does not align to what you described. And so I just want to know which it is, like whether the, the methodology was based solely on materiality and size, and then randomized for immaterial transactions, or if it was based on a judgmental assessment, risk assessment. To select the immaterial transactions. And I think you may— somewhere in there you may have said you picked the object codes based on the risk assessment and then randomized within those, but I'm not sure if I heard that right. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm not explaining it too well. I just think of it as, yeah, you have a bucket for construction, bucket for, bucket for payroll. There's also benefits as well. And then so within there, there's judgment in terms of you pick these large items, but there's also going to be a There's also going to be just a, a, a randomness in, in picking the samples, because can't really look at them all. It's kind of an unsatisfying answer, I have to say. That's a different methodology. A randomized sampling is just an utterly different auditing methodology than using judgmentally selected expenditures. So I just want to know which methodology was followed. That's it. So I, I guess where it says judgmentally selected, is that from your perspective as a reader, does that mean we look at the whole thing and we pick this one? No, we pick that one. We pick just based on a description, like a manual process. Size, timing, code name, repetition. Oh, okay. So judgmentally. All right, maybe I'm leaving things out. I mean, probably judgmentally maybe isn't the best word to use. When I— so when I say random, there's actually a— there's a software that we use that I don't want to— it's not as sophisticated as like artificial intelligence, but it does pull things out based on, you know, I don't know, certain number patterns and dates that, that things happen. And so there's maybe a little more that goes into it besides just 100% randomness. But Okay, so selected by proprietary software. Yeah, I— yeah, it's not really a— I mean, it's like Excel add-ons that are used in the audit world. But yeah, I wonder— and, and if you want to follow up after, you don't have to answer everything tonight. If there's some open issue that you feel would be best researched and responded back to the committee, we're happy to take it, you know, after the fact. I'm just, you know, I'm harping on this one on employee or district personnel for the reason that I stated. There were 400 transactions. Half of that is one transaction or two, the accountant and the, the bond oversight person that makes it the bulk of, you know, or half, 50% of it. The remaining 50% is 350 individual small little transactions of people charging maintenance, maintenance personnel. It looks like charging, you know, opening a gate, watering a tree. And so I'm just trying to understand, like, how many of those were looked at, if any, to ensure that A, it was an appropriate bond expense, and B, the internal controls on that person charging that time to the bond were appropriate. Yeah, certainly, due to the size of those transactions, those would not be explicitly— we must look at, we must look at these. We may have, and I can look it up, and maybe that's a response I can, I can give you later on. Okay, I'd appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, maybe send me the— send me the questions. I'll— I can get you a, a more complete answer. I have a quick question, just really quickly. How do you determine— I mean, who determines possibly— let's say, for example, on a construction project, a road is paved, who would determine who would be the painting the lines for the road? Would it go under construction, or what if the union maintenance workers said, that's my job. Who makes the decision? Would that be Chief Business Official? Excuse me, that typically be part of the construction contract, uh, right? The striping of the roadway would be part that we would incorporate into the contract before we started the project, and it would be closed out when that was completed. Thank you. Would you like a follow-up on your question, Cameron, from Nathan? No, Prop 39 is the— what they mean by judgmentally selected. So I, I'm— I, I get that now, but it's not randomized. That's it, which was what was in the— or humanly selected, I think. Is that what you're saying, Nathan? The software that you use highlights certain transactions to go look at? Just want to be clear on what you— what we think we heard. Yeah, so this is below the material line we're talking about now. Yeah, so there, there's things that are pulled out, and then there, there's, there's also a sense of randomness that, that just shuffles it up and says, well, here's what, here's what we're going to pick. Because so what would usually— the software is used just to determine population size in that. So you dump your Excel in, and if you have 112 lines, it calculates how many of that population to meet your same threshold, and then it arbitrarily spits out the ones. So the only, the only judgmental, uh, selection going on there is making sure you meet your adequate sample size relative to your population is basically what he's saying, right? So that's— but that's— yeah, it's different than wholly randomized. So there is a sample— is not the best word to— because I don't— it's not a word that's really defined well. So Maybe it's a— are you suggesting that he should revise the report? It's, it's standard language for methodology for audits, but it's just not the— it wouldn't be the process. Wouldn't be able to revise report. Maybe it's something to consider for future reports. Sorry, I didn't mean to choke you, Rick. I have the factual answer to my question. Any other questions for Nathan on the audits? Thank you, Nathan. Appreciate you sticking with us and going through this. Really appreciate it. All right, well, thank you very much. Have a, have a good evening. Okay, that finishes Item 4, our guest presentations. Um, would anyone feel like we need a 5-minute break before continuing with the agenda, or should we just push ahead? Push ahead. Okay, push ahead. So we're moving into item 5 now, which is our action items. These are the items where we will be voting on, uh, if a motion is, is put forward. So the first one is, uh, 5.1, which is the minutes from our February meeting. And those were provided in advance, and there's a copy here as well. First off, do we have a motion to approve last meeting's minutes? Motion approved. Second. And a second. Okay, any discussion on the minutes from the last meeting? So I would note that 4.9 in the draft, in the reflection of the public comments from Mr. Obel. He, he did not disagree with the minutes. He disagreed with the substance of Ms. Mueller's statements, and I clarified that in the meeting. So it's inaccurately described here. So how, how should we adjust that part of the minutes to be factually correct? I, I think we should say that he, uh, stated that he disagreed with what Ms. Mueller had said in that portion of the prior meeting, but confirmed he did not disagree with the minutes reflecting what she had said. So if we just strike— if it just said, uh, and we're on— this is for the end of 4:09, right, right above 4:10. Yeah, if we said, um, let's see where we— Mr. Robel And wait, was he, um, he stated that, and we— he disagreed, and we strike the with the minutes and leave the basically with Ms. Mueller— Ms. Mueller's statement in the prior meeting that, that the authorized propositions may include. Okay. Okay, so there's a— and maybe you could just type this up, or I— we could just send it to Olivia to adjust the minutes. But so there's a proposed change to address what Mr. Robel said, and I also reviewed the video recording, and you're indeed correct that that's what he said. So this is misrepresenting what he said. So if we correct that, is there any discussion on, on making that correction? Okay, any other discussion on the minutes? All right, so with that change to 4.9, which will provide to Olivia to adjust, let's vote on approval of last meeting's minutes. So all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Alright, so minutes approved as amended. Okay, we move into 5.2 now. At the last meeting, we discussed some proposed changes to the bylaws. We had some response from the district on those. There were some actions that Cameron took to harmonize those and come up with a final draft for approval this evening. Um, so before we go into discussing the bylaws, do we have a motion to approve the amended bylaws? And a second? Seconded. Second. Okay, okay. So now discussion on the bylaws. Uh, they were distributed. We have a marked-up copy here in front of us. So you can see the red line changes. Cameron, is there anything— you, you led this initiative. Thank you for doing that. First of all, recognizing the work that you did here. Is there anything that you want to share with the committee about what's in the draft in front of us? Yeah. So I think at a high level, what I attempted to do was clean up inconsistent drafting and things like that that were in here. Remove statements in our committee bylaws that weren't actually actionable by the committee, but were actionable by the district. So there was greater clarity for anyone reading these bylaws in terms of what we do and what we don't do, and then also remove constraints that weren't legally required that were being put on the committee by its bylaws that might limit this committee or a future committee in terms of what they do, such as a, a really cumbersome quorum requirement, a very detailed and unnecessary procedural process for removing committee members if they don't— aren't showing up, or are, you know, not, not abiding by the bylaws, things like that. So I looked for opportunities where we were unnecessarily encumbered as a committee, or a future committee would be, and tried to remove those and, and bring it back to alignment with what's legally required. Also took out a lot of specificity. It was like, we'll meet in these months, or this will happen in this first meeting, as opposed to it just will happen as it's supposed to. And then the last thing is the, the minutes and the documentation. The, the district is responsible for noticing our meetings, so I tried to make that clear. And the district is responsible for posting certain documents for us, and I tried to make that clear and make it not so aggressively overprescribed. Those are the goals. But if anything— anybody has any questions? Are you striking out page numbers? Uh, no, they're on— yeah, some of this is just formatting changes between the old bylaws and the new one, and when I ran it through the redline thing, it just highlighted formatting changes. So, um, I'm sure we'll have the— did you make any changes for the Brown Act? I did. So what I did was took an agnostic position as to whether the Brown Act applies or not, because I don't think our bylaws should bind us to a legal position on that. And instead I said that our meeting shall be open to the public and shall be properly noticed by the district, which are the elements of the Brown Act that certainly do apply to these meetings. Um, but I did— I removed the previous position in the bylaws that the Brown Act applies but did not insert a statement that it doesn't. Okay, so it's in line with the— it's agnostic— the Ed Code statement that just says they need to be. Yeah, I just focus on what we're required to do, not those positions, legal positions. Yeah, I, I just want to thank you, Cameron, for doing the heavy lifting on this. And then you ran this by, uh, Rick at the district and got feedback which you incorporated, um, or any commentary on the district's— or Rick, any commentary on the district's position on the bylaws? Uh, no, we did go through, we reviewed it and several emails. I, I would just say, in the drafts, I noted that the district would clearly like us to have a statement that the chair will remain on until replaced. And based on the conversation of the committee at the last meeting when that was in the, the draft, I, I continued to remove it through the process. The, the, the proper succession from one chair to the next belongs in the Board of Trustees doing timely appointment um, so that seats can be filled. It does not belong to the committee members to stay on for an undefined amount of time beyond their committed term of service, is my personal opinion. We, we agree with you, Tamara, and, and I think the intent— and I don't think it came across— it wasn't that a member, let's say Carl, decided to leave tonight, we can't force him to stay until the next meeting or the meeting after that as president. Uh, it was in the realm of, uh, if Carl vacates the seat as president but is still on the committee, or his term as president, uh, expires, uh, without reelection. It was to enforce reelection with current members. It wasn't to fulfill the— not to keep somebody on. Uh, we would have no luck in that. And thank you for referring to me as president. I do appreciate that. I'm not sure that's a term of endearment anymore, but I'm used to the board meetings. Any other, uh, questions, comments on the bylaws changes? We're ready to vote. Any public comment? Um, okay, so, uh, we have a motion to approve the amended bylaws, and all in favor please say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? Any opposed? Any abstentions? Okay, new bylaws are approved, and we appreciate the district support in cleaning up the draft and, um, posting these as the new bylaws effective as of, uh, what is today, April 11th, 2023? May. May. What did I say? April. President We're in May. Um, thanks, Cameron, again. Okay, we are moving on to our 5.3, which is a topic we took up at the last meeting, and, uh, this is approval of the annual report by the CBOC for the fiscal year previous to the one we were just talking about, um, with the audit, the 2021 report. And, um, if anybody has— recalls, I could look at the minutes where we left it from the last meeting. We didn't approve them at the last meeting. We were waiting for some council's input, which we received some of this evening, uh, and then we're going to put it on the agenda to reevaluate what we're going to do tonight. So, uh, moving into this, first, is there a motion to approve the report for fiscal 2021. Can I ask another question? Of course. So, uh, normally this, this body would be the one that is preparing the report, and is the reason that we are approving it tonight because we are not the same folks, the same members of the committee that actually prepared it? Because normally, if we're, if we're approving it— I mean, if we're preparing it it then would go to the board, or is that just the practice of this committee in the district? Well, let me first comment on the— I think the, the timeline, and then, Cameron, maybe you want to talk a little bit about the, the procedural aspect. So my recollection is that this, um, the report was prepared by the previous committee chair with the previous committee that some of us were a member of, but not during this fiscal year. Right. The report was for— and it was late because of COVID The audit took much longer. So the report was actually ready, I'm guessing, in kind of June of last year. But the— that committee, that chairperson, and the members of the committee who were around in that fiscal year had turned out, and there was no meeting that happened that June to vote on it with the— before those people turned out. And so then it arrived on our agenda, I think, was that the December meeting? The original October meeting that turned into— Yeah. So that's— that was the timing behind why nobody here on the committee today was on the committee during that fiscal year and why the chairperson who wrote the report didn't ever vote on it, because the meeting that would have happened where the chair was still in the chair didn't happen. So is it— is it the practice of— this district and, and this committee, that once you prepare the report, you then approve the report that you just prepared? So I can help there. So our bylaws, including the updated version, say that the, uh, committee shall issue the report and that all the report shall be approved by an affirmative vote of two-thirds of this committee. Um, so it's one of the most significant actions we take and one of the only ones that requires that that substantial burden. So yes, we do a report and then we approve it before it gets issued according to our bylaws. On the prior conversation where we stalled out on this one, our previous bylaws had an unnecessary requirement that we approve it as to substance, whatever that means. And that's where we stalled out because we were theoretically standing behind the substance of the prior report, not just approving it procedurally like we would minutes of a meeting we didn't attend, but we trust the process to, to do it. Our current bylaws, you'll be pleased to know, no longer say that we're approving as to substance. They simply say we're approving it. So then that, that brings me to my third point, which is the discussion with the council earlier, who said we could add a note that we didn't, um, you know, weren't, weren't privy to the ability to question the auditors or the different things like that. I actually— my perspective is the way that the report is written, it shows who the committee members are who prepared it and the letter is drafted from the chair at that time. If it goes out as that, I think we're simply offering a procedural vote as this committee to allow our prior committee's work to go out, whereas if there was some reason we needed to put our committee's names as the membership or write the letter ourselves as to the substance, we may want to have that kind of addendum. But at, at this point, under our bylaws, we're just approving for issue— that's item 6 in the bylaws. Yeah, 6B. Okay, just to refresh ourselves, 6B. So that's kind of the— the 3 points of discussion. Because of that misalignment, though, between— you're right— that, uh, between, uh, members listed and the letter required for no longer— it's kind of help support their bond program. I, I think that could certainly be reflected in the minutes. It could be attended to the report. It could be accompany the report where it's posted. I think there's a lot of ways to, to handle that. I do think my perspective is that the, the letter is to the public from the committee at the time, and we're all members of that public. So we are both approvers and recipients of this report, and it should probably stay that way. But yeah, I don't think it hurts to either have the minutes of this meeting where it's approved very clearly reflect that, you know, it's an entirely new committee that's approving in a procedural way and not as to substance. I agree with that. As long as there's just somewhere written where it's easily found, you know, where— Yeah. So here's my suggestion, and I'm not the parliamentarian, but that we get a motion to approve the report as is. Then someone can propose an alternative motion to say, well, we should approve it with this language on top of it. And you can vote no on the first one and yes on the second one, or vice versa. Uh, the parliamentarian, do you want to correct me? Because the agenda says we're voting on the report, and the report was noticed and provided to the public. If we want to amend it, let's have a motion to do that. Um, I, I would say that we are approving the release of this report that was compiled by the committee at the time. I'm okay releasing it as is. It's just a little tardy, but Why not? Um, there's, there's nothing that would change in the substance here, not to, not to use the hot word from the previous bylaws, but it, it, it is ready to go. Okay, why don't you formulate that as a motion then, Carl? Okay. Uh, I move to approve the, uh, annual report for 2021 to 20— or 2020 to 2021, uh, as is. I second it. Okay, any further discussion on the motion? I would just comment that I think what you said is you, you, you were moving to release the report. Did you want that word release in the motion, um, just to clarify? I think that's just how it's written in the bylaws now. So I think, um, well, it's— we're not approving as to substance anymore, right? So we're approving— issuing the report— issuing Okay, so could you restate your motion just so we're really clear on the record what we're voting on? Uh, I move to, uh, issue the report. Okay, so now— I'm just gonna say we are, we are required to approve it by affirmative vote, but we are not approving it as to substance. And so, you know, I think we should all take a hard look at how the minutes of this discussion, um, my recommendation would be are reflected when we approve those at the next meeting. Make sure that they show that You know, we would— discussion ensued that we are not any of the committee that was present at the time the report was prepared, right? And are approving it for issuance in due process. But I think we do need that word approved because that's our, that's our duty to do, to approve it for— and then once we approve it, it's issued. So his motion could be to approve it for issuance. For issuance, or approve for posting or release or whatever. Yeah. Okay. Okay, one more time, Carl. Uh, I move to approve this annual report, uh, for issuance. I second. Okay, thanks, man. Approved and seconded. Any other discussion before we vote? All right, uh, all in favor of the motion, aye, please. Aye. Okay, any opposed? Uh, any abstain? Okay, we needed two-thirds. We got Everybody. So the motion passes. Thank you, Carl and Cameron. Okay, so that finishes up 5, and we're moving into 6 now. So information discussion items. Note here that we always welcome public comment on any of these as we go through it as a committee. Okay, so 6, review Measure T bond activity since the last meeting. And then we have 6.1, 2, 3, and 4. So just to summarize, these were reports that were sent out with the agenda, bond expenditures, contractor change orders approved by the district since the last meeting, no bid contracts executed since the last meeting, and new projects approved by the board which may or may not have been spent. Uh, just to clarify, 614. So, um, we have these. Let's start with the bond expenditures since the last meeting. That was a spreadsheet, um, that was provided, and it totals up to, uh— well, I'm sorry, just to clarify, which attachment was that? 611? Was that a spreadsheet? Okay. Got it. 611. Okay. Um, does anyone have any, uh, questions for the district, um, on this particular list of the— and just to clarify, Rick, what period are we covering here? 11/1 through 3/31. Okay. And then the next version of this would cover April 1st through Okay, perfect. Through June, June 30th, and we meet again in August, I think. So we'll always be a little bit behind because it's on the quarterly schedule. Okay, um, so with that in mind, there are, um, what, 400 roughly, uh, bond transactions in the last period, with a largest of Nearly $500,000 down to the smallest being, um, $7.50. So any discussion or questions on this list of expenditures? I would just like to say that, um, I appreciate on this report that it gives a, a quite a bit of, um, detail due to the, uh, description and so forth. But I do like to periodically see the financials that come directly out of our financial system and not on the spreadsheet. Okay, good point. So normally— well, I don't know about normally— in the past meetings that I've been at, we have had a presentation on the summarized financial reports, and the verifying that they agree, that the books agree. And so what— I think your point is well taken, and maybe what we could do is include that at the next meeting to cover the period that we missed this time. Or we could decide when we get to agenda topics for the next meeting, what is the cadence of these different reports that we're now asking the district to provide? And do we want all of them for every meeting? Or do we want some of them just annually, or some of them, you know, every second meeting? But good point, Carolyn. Thank you for sharing. Any other discussion or questions on the expenditure list? Personally, it would be more helpful for me to see if— like, I see it's by date, which is a very large receipt list, um, but to have it structured in order of cost classification code and then summarize in each bucket for each. And you can even title it with these are the dates, but seeing them all like this is a lot. So in the Excel spreadsheet that we got, you can sort it, of course, any way you want. But are you suggesting then, just to clarify, that there's some extra columns that you would like in the next version of the report? No, I mean, each, each item would have its own— I don't know how it's done internally. It would have a, a category to the cost code. Um, yeah, I imagine there's a, like, a work breakdown structure to the program that you would start basically sorting by project and then sort by the expenditures within that project. Exactly. Is this something easily provided, uh, Rick? Okay. Are people finding this report? Because we haven't had this before, and at least in my tenure in the committee, we, we've looked at the financials at the roll-up level, which is still important to do, to Carolyn's point. But we haven't had the detail provided. And so this is the first time that we have asked the district to give it to us, and I want to make sure that the committee finds it useful. To look at if we're going to continue to ask the district to provide it. She made a comment she wants— she would like to see it by school. You can essentially— table, right? By project. So if you, if you are able to look at it on the computer, you can sort it by project anyway. Does that Does that apply? Is that the same as school site, roughly? I mean, some sites are not— there's a site— well, there's a project called Energy and Security Projects, which presumably is across many different sites. Bond program administration. But the one before that is Clifford Modernization, and the next one is Garfield Primary. So for all intents and purposes, the school site is included in the report if you sort by that first column. I think the printed version that we got, and I will make a request, and if the— we can do this maybe in the agenda items, or maybe we can just agree to— do we need all this printed material at the meetings, or can people work off the digital copies that are sent out? But anyway, I think the printed version that we have in front of us is by date, maybe. Yeah, just by invoice date, which isn't particularly helpful. But if you've looked at the Excel version, you can sort it by school site or by dollar value if you want to look at the biggest transactions, or by vendor if you want to look at who's getting the most money. For example, I think it's helpful to have it printed for the meeting. If there are any comments about it, then you have something to look at. But we can review that— review it on our own time in PivotTable, as long as the column category is there. Okay. And just to be crystal clear, is there a column, or what is the description of the column that you'd like to see added that isn't in here right now? It's like a— it's a category code, and it depends on who's running the software. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, cool. Any other discussion on 611? Okay, thank you for providing that, Rick and team. We appreciate it, and for taking the action item to add that additional column for the next, uh, review. Okay, that takes us to 612, which is contractor change orders approved by the district since the last meeting. Um, you'll see here contractor change order 612, and no-bid contracts 613, and of course all of the expenditures 611, and then the new projects 614. So these are all new requests. I added them to the agenda. I asked the district to provide the information to you. I was hoping it would be helpful. But as we go through each of these, let's decide whether we want to keep looking at these. So, okay, 612, contractor change orders. Um, you know, uh, for those of you in construction, I'm sure you all know that change orders can be a, a place where a lot of activity happens after the original contract is written. So we have a list. Um, I would request, uh, to the district that these be provided in Excel format going forward rather than PDF so that they can be easily sorted by the committee members totaled up, pivoted, whatever. So Rick, if you don't mind taking that action item. Does anyone have any questions for the district or discussion topics around the change orders that they— that are covered in this report? Well, I really like this report. I think it's really interesting, and it's— I don't know, I, I appreciated the fact that this was prepared for us to look at. It would be, it would be helpful, or I'd like to make the suggestion— I'm assuming approved is it was board approved, that's what the column— if we could see what the percent of project cost the change orders or the current change order total is at so that we could look and see, well, the TAF project came in, there's several change orders here, but it's under, you know, 10%. Or something like that. Just another column with the, with the current percent of project cost that the change order represents. Is that easy for the district to do? Okay, so just picking on one here, the vendor is Atlas, it's Garfield, there's construction change order, um, it's $37,000. Approval is pending, I guess, from the board. It just came in. You're saying, is that 100% of the contract value? Is it 2% of it? Just to— is that what you're saying, Caroline? Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying, so there's change orders like on this Garfield one with Rodan, you know, there's 88 change orders for totaling— well, I'm assuming that's just 76 through 88 that totals to $72,000. It's not all the change orders, right? Yeah. And then, you know, Have we maxed out our change orders, or is there still capacity? Or so within each site, you're wanting the percentage per contract or the percentage for the overall project? For example, the contract— we have 10 contractors working on this one project. You either present the percentage, the change order percentage per contract, or the change order percentage across the entire project. And yeah, for the whole project, it's okay. Cool. There's a— I actually have a counter view of that, but, um, go ahead with your— well, I was just— I mean, there is, you know, particular— almost half of the change order is from contract providers, mostly RCSD. Is that— is there any takeaway that you can share with us on that? And is there exceeded contingency and the budget in general? Um, just to be specific, I just— because I have it in front of me, uh, of the $700,000 in change orders, $300,000 is for Rodan Builders. So that, that does stick out as— yeah, great question. So, um, at Garfield, Rodan Builders is the general contractor. So, and their contract was much larger in dollar amount than all of the other trades. So the other trades have smaller contracts, um, and are, you know, providing less scope. So Rodan's dollar amount would be expected to be larger. And, uh, because they're the general contractor covering, you know, the majority of the main new construction building, we would expect them to have more change orders than someone that was just handling, you know, plumbing or landscaping. And I believe Rodan is still well under the 10% change order contingency. There was— okay, so Rodan has surpassed the 10% change order contingency that was initially set up. We sent a few— we, when that happens, legally you need to send a futility resolution to the board, letting them know and acknowledging that that contract went over the 10%. In order for the county to be able to process that change order, and that did happen. Yeah, and, and that's why I just think that would be helpful, because especially like change orders 1 through 75, you know, being a new member, I, I don't have knowledge of that. So absolutely. Yeah. Is, uh, is Redan self-performing a lot of work? Is that why so much of it is attributed directly to them? Just want to make sure your mics are on when you're talking so that we, um— I'm a little late to the game on— that's a great question. So the Garfield new construction modernization project, the project delivery method was multi-prime. So the plan set is dissected into a general contractor trade, and then all of the other trades, and those are individually bid out. So Rodan was the general contractor. They self-performed some work and had you know, large group of subcontractors under them as well. Some of the other trades contractors also have their own subs. So in terms of the number of companies that are out there, it's more than just the 10 that are under contract. Each of those that are under contract have— not every one of them, but a lot of them have subcontractors under them as well. And just to clarify, because I'm not a construction expert, the change order though is for the master contract holder. Or if one of their subs has a change order, their— the, the, the general in this case is submitting it to you. That's correct. Uh, yeah, the contract holder. Yeah. Okay, is, is the, the change order is applied to the contract holder even if one of their subs, you know, even if one of their subs performs the work for that change order? Uh, the change order goes to the board under the— that general contractor wrote in for for, for instance. So, and we're not categorizing the subs in this use case, right? We're just using— Rodan's only one that we're seeing as the expense. That's correct. Yeah. So Rodan and all of their subs are categorized on, on these sheets as Rodan. Okay. Yeah. So just to clarify the percentage request that you made, Carolyn, which I think is spectacularly appropriate here, um, I think what I would be looking for is the percentage, uh, of the change order relative to that vendor's contract. Not to the overall Garfield project, right? Because for that vendor, it might be 15%, which is above your 10% limit. That's correct. But for the whole project, it might be 0.5%. Yeah, so generally, generally when we're looking at, you know, the performance of an overall project, we look at the percentage, the change order percentage of the entire project. But Carl, to, to what you're saying, we also look at the individual contract, because if the individual contract surpasses the 10%, we have to, you know, we have to send the futility resolution to the district. So it's totally up to you guys whether— I think we're asking one, or I'm asking for one and you're asking for a different one. So we can provide both. Um, yeah, because Will clarified that it's multi-prime, so that changes things. Yeah, from my perspective of thinking on a multi-prime— yeah, on a multi-prime project, you look at the per— you know, the performance of the project as the overall project change order contingency. But when sending a change order to the board for an individual contractor, you're tracking whether they surpass their 10%, because if they do surpass the 10%, you have to send that change order to the board with a futility resolution in order for the county to process it. And have any of those that have gone above 10% and gone to the board been, uh, rejected? Uh, no, they've all been approved. The futility resolution? Yeah. Yes. Um, then roughly how many of the— I mean, is it 2 over the course of the life of the bond, or is it 200? It's been few. Um, Annabelle, probably a handful or so. Yeah, 5 or 6 in 7 years or something. Yeah, out of, you know, hundreds of contractors. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, there's, there's verbiage that comes along with the futility resolution. Basically, you know, basically it's in the district's best interest to approve the futility resolution, because to bring in another contractor to try to do that small piece of additional work that takes them over 10%. Create coordination issues, you know, mobilization and all that. It becomes more expensive to, you know, if they wanted to try to bring someone else in to handle that, basically. So that's the verbiage that's included in the futility resolution. Are we, uh, here aware of any of these futility resolutions that happened during the time period that we need to write our report on next, which is the 21-22 fiscal year? Uh, I believe there would have been a futility resolution that went to the board during the '21 to '22 fiscal year, at, at least one, right? Okay. If, uh, if you don't mind, Rick, if someone could just share that with the committee, um, then, you know, might be something to note in the report. It might not be, but then we would have the information. So the request would be any futility resolutions or change orders that went above 10% that happened during the fiscal year '21-'22 that we need to write our report on? Absolutely. Good question. Um, with, uh, sorry, did any— no, please. Yeah, yeah. So they're known, known as PCOs, potential change orders. And, um, you know, just a process question: are these values set as PCOs, or will this All right, sorry. Will the change order reflect the same dollar value as the PCO? So when, when a— they start as potential change orders, PCOs, and are then negotiated. Some are, uh, some are refused by our team, um, uh, and once the PCOs are approved they're then compiled into a change order that gets approved, um, by the board. Does that answer your question? Yes. So, uh, this report, we will be seeing all of these PCOs into a change order log. Each of these line items— I'm sorry, yeah, each of these line items, an individual line item on here is a change order, and then it notes the PCOs that were included on that change order. So these are all the PCOs that were either negotiated or approved and then compiled onto a change order for that specific site and contract that goes to the board for approval. Yeah, so I think this, this report should have the change order number on it. So, you know, we have the PCO tracked. It does have the change order number on it under the short description. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. And then it also has the PCO numbers. Okay. And then the other question I have, just basic best practices, are these PCOs, or is there any work that's being done at risk while these PCOs are being negotiated? No, our team has a very tight, uh, structure where work will not— so when a contractor identifies a PCO, um, the contractor cannot proceed with work until a work directive is approved and signed, uh, to avoid someone in the field saying, oh yeah, you know, go ahead and do that, right, without actually documenting it, negotiating it, and then coming back later and, you know, having issues, you know, dialing in exactly what happened. So we have a work directive form that identifies the exact scope, dollar amount, approach, and it goes through its own internal approval before the contractor is released to do the work. Okay, so there's no hidden obligations, uh, outstanding that aren't reflected here? No. Thanks. Good questions. Another question: in the approved column, we have an X and we have pending. So X presumably means approved. And approved here, we're saying the board has approved it? That's correct. Okay. So none of these are marked as rejected by the board, so they're either pending or all approved. Do you happen to know offhand, during the fiscal '21-'22 period when we have to write our report, were any change orders rejected by the board? No. Has a change order ever been rejected by the board in your tenure? Not that I know of. Okay, but, uh, what I mentioned before, PCOs that are individual line items within the change orders have been refused by our team in the field, and it does not become— you know, the PCO doesn't make it onto a change order if it gets refused. And what's the— don't take this in the wrong way, but what is the incentive to negotiate a change order with the contractor as opposed to just pass it through for board approval, which seems to happen every single time? Uh, well, our team is in place so that things are not just passed through. So when change or when a potential change order is generated by a contractor It's our, you know, our team's job to study the plans. You know, if a contractor says this work was not shown on the plans, the architect missed this, it's our job to actually study the plans and confirm that, you know, that, that work is not shown on the plans and really is additional work that the contractors are owed money for. So contractors there and That's where we get into our negotiations with them. If something is in a gray area, you know, they're, you know, you get to negotiation on, you know, what's fair and acceptable. Some are refused, some are clearly, you know, clearly not shown on a plan set, and then some, you know, one sheet shows something, one sheet has another note that's contrary. And you have to enter into negotiations, basically. So it's your job specifically, or, um, your firm's job to do this negotiating, right? And to pass the, the, um, the change order request to the board for approval? Uh, I mean, we— or it goes— the district is the final approval on, you know, the, on the negotiation, uh approval or the deny, you know, whether they're refused, approved, or negotiating— negotiated, the district is the one that gives the final approval on that. And who at the district doesn't have construction staff? They don't have architects and engineers that are going to approve. That's what you're— we— yes, we do that, then we communicate with the district, you know, the— for ex— for example, you know, Don Diaz, who is with the district and does have, you know, 30 years of construction experience we, you know, he's in those meetings with us when we're, you know, when we're negotiating, um, and we all come to an agreement on, you know, how it lands, and then it goes to the board for approval. So who's in those meetings now from the district since Don retired, I think last June or something? Just for clarity for the committee. What's that? They're these— well, they're not— you know, you said these meetings. I mean, they're discussions with— or discussion— I mean, discussions with the— yeah, so the, the, the discussions that you have with the contractor negotiation that Don was used to be in representing the district— who represents the district now? Martin is the interim bond program director. Okay, so is he in those discussions? Yes, we keep, we keep him updated on, on those— here, so he could speak for himself, I guess. Absolutely. Yeah, he's, he's, he's very involved. He knows meetings every week, you know, every week, weekly meetings, different contractors. So Martin comes to our office and we go through every PCO and change order with him, explain everything, keep him updated, you know, sometimes have to go back to contractors, back and forth until we get an approval. And sorry, will— your group does not receive any fees based on any of these contract change orders, correct? No. Or any incentive to— on the flip side, is there any incentive for you, for your firm, to negotiate hard on these change orders? Uh, I mean, it's our fiduciary— other than your fiduciary responsibility, right? Correct. You're not incentivized to stay below budget or stay under budget, right? Incentivized or something? No, absolutely not. There's no bonus or something after contract ends? First— no, no, you, you're— you maybe you should explain, you're a construction manager, right? Technically, right? So, well, I'm, I'm the program man, but you're acting as the agent for the owner and— that's correct, right? So, which is typical, right? Like from my experience. And, and a weekly PCO meeting is very typical, right? In which case you are doing the first pass probably of the review. Seeing if the claim is legitimate in any way, right before it probably goes to him. So correct. Yeah. When you, um, dispute a BCO, what's generally the main reason or the most common reason you dispute a BCO? I would need to— I would need to go back and report back on that. I mean, we have one specific project that You know, we had a contractor that was, you know, constantly, you know, sending through illegitimate PCOs that we refuse, refuse, refuse. No. And then you have other situations where, you know, contractors are, you know, more fair and are not trying to, you know, not trying to go that direction. But, but generally it's added or revised scope and not warranty work or something they messed up. Part. That's correct. Janet, do you— maybe you could enlighten us. When the board receives these change orders for approval, what information are you getting? I mean, they're— every single one is approved, so it doesn't sound like they're controversial when they reach the board. Yes. How are you reviewing them and ensuring that the proper checks and balances have been done to approved them? Some of them are quite large, right? There's— so all of that information will come on the board agenda. That is the same info that's available to the public. So whatever's on the board member— the memo, all the attachments, all that, um, is what the board reviews. And then, um, we can— you typically— board members will email questions prior to the board meeting, um, and then there's discussion at the board meeting if necessary. Okay, thank you. Yeah, so the change orders, when they go to the board, they come along with the board memo, um, that highlights, you know, the PCOs and explains them. And then it also has the attachment that has the change order, the PCO, our PCO cover sheet, and then the contractor's backup, um, you know, down to the subcontractor, the subcontractor's individual invoice, and the exact the contract work that was completed by them. This is super helpful. Thank you. We won't have as many questions next time, I'm sure. But is that percentage that you negotiated from the original request by the contractor— let's say they asked for $50,000, you agreed on $30,000— is that highlighted in that board memo, what the negotiated— the percent that you saved, if you will? No. It just would show the $30,000 final number that you agreed with the contractor, or That's correct. I think that's industry standard. You would negotiate rates documented. It's just whatever the final contract is, that's what it is. Yeah, I was just curious if the board has visibility into the cost savings activities that you're doing on behalf of the district in these, in these negotiations. Does that make sense, the question I'm asking? Uh, yeah, that's same answer. There's no— the, the item that goes to the board does not show any you know, negotiated values on PCOs. So how does the board evaluate whether you're doing a good job in your fiduciary responsibility? Great question. Great question. Maybe that's the more direct question. Great question. Okay. Back to where we started, the overall change order percentage across the entire project is the metric that you look at. Okay. So if, you know, across the entire project, all contractors, You have your initial total contract value, and then you have your percentage of total change orders. And, you know, our goal is to keep that under the 10% threshold and as close to zero as possible. And you feel that's reflective of your ability to negotiate these change orders appropriately in the district's interest? That is the metric that is looked at as an industry standard on the performance of, you know, the construction or program manager. I mean, that's only part of it. It is part of it because that was unresolved from the get-go, and there's a lot to play into it. I'm sure there is. And, and also it depends on, you know, how, uh, what processes or the timeline that that individual management company is involved in. So if a construction manager is hired and just given a plan set that's already completed and DSA approved, completed by an architect approved by the state, they're handed a plan set. They could be handed a plan set that, you know, is absolute garbage. And then the change order percentage could get high because the plans were bad, and you can't hold that to the, the construction management firm that just got handed that plan set, they can do their best to negotiate and refuse and try to keep that percentage low. But if you get a, you know, bad plan set and you weren't involved in the design process, you know, there's not much that you can do. But have you done any, um, project closeout lessons learned initiatives yet, or is that still planned to move towards the Measure S project? Work? Um, have we done any, like, lessons learned to basically pick up, like— yeah, I mean, through the entire— which we are going to do it again. I mean, every week through the entire program, you know, we're, we're going through the lessons learned. Is there a mechanism that you're collecting those lessons learned, uh, in, like, a central— like, uh, in my past, we've collected them as, like, a form-based entry, so we have a database of lessons learned for associated projects and costs and impacts? There's not like a list of lessons learned, but once we complete a project, we absolutely study the metrics of that project and then go back and discuss, you know, if, you know, if there are certain metrics that kind of stand out, we go back and we look, you know, so what, what happened there? You know, what are, you know, what architect were we working with? Were there any issues or the design pro— you know, we, yeah, we go back and we study, you know, what could have happened. But does that knowledge reside with the individuals on that project team though, or, or is there, is there ever a report or, or, um— not that I know of. Not that I know of. Yeah, it's generally internal. Yeah. Um, uh, question— this is an important topic and not to be, I think, glossed over, that, um, part of our Committee's objectives, we just learned, is to help— is to review cost savings efforts by the district. And it sounds like learning from past mistakes, whether it was on the part of the architect, the contractor, the district, whomever, and applying those to future projects to avoid change orders would be a good thing in general, right? So I think what maybe what I'm hearing the members ask is, is there a systematic way to record the, the learnings that help future projects operate more cost-effectively. Is that a— It's just such a great opportunity because you're essentially doing these all over again, but you've already done them, so now they can improve. But I mean— I mean, our company does that, you know, day after day. You know, as we're working through projects and working through programs, you know, we're learning lessons and you know, sharing them company-wide. I mean, we have a Monday morning meeting, you know, company-wide, not just this program, where we discuss, you know, what's happening in projects and, you know, how— lessons learned and things like that. So I— but there's no Redwood City Measure T lessons learned, you know, tracking report that you guys are kind of asking about. Yeah, I, I think We also have to be really cautious. I mean, sure, we don't want to replicate mistakes that were made, but, you know, we can't really say, oh, ABC Architect did a terrible job, because anybody could get a records request, and then, you know, you could be sued by that architect because, what do you mean we did a terrible job? We finished this building for you, and, and now it's a public record that Redwood City thinks ABC Architect did a job. So, you know, as a public agency, sometimes, um, well, it's— we, we have to skirt a fine line between some of the things— that's a good point— negative points as well as positive points too. Well, I, I think because we've gone so far into the weeds, I just have one more question. Sure, bring it. Yeah, um, you know, when it goes back to like the contract award for these scopes of work, um, are you going lowest bid, uh, lowest technically acceptable, best value trade-off, like Because a lot of times this change order, uh, culture, uh, starts with how the award mechanism starts or is. And, uh, you know, lowest bidder, uh, often has some complications in the long run. But so how, how do we go about awarding these contracts? Uh, legally you have to award the lowest bidder. I mean, it's the CBOC law. Yeah. Okay. So lowest, the lowest responsive bidder, lowest qual— lowest qualified, fully responsive bidder. So, okay, um, yeah. So just on the last topic, I know we came out of the weeds, but I just have one question. Do you have any recommendations for how the Redwood City School District could retain the benefits of the lessons learned that have been derived from their bond project. So it— I mean, I, I understand your company has them, but how can the district— do you have any, any thoughts or recommendations on that? Um, I mean, I'll look to this— look to the district high level. I mean, I wouldn't go back and like to PCO levels and say like, oh, this piece of equipment needed this, and we— but very high-level stuff would be really helpful too. Not pointing out businesses or companies that failed, scope changes, even knowing something for the future. Um, really high-level stuff should be— I wouldn't know, but hopefully easy enough to put down and document just for personnel turnover reasons. I mean, we've seen it just within our, our committee. I mean, I— it makes sense what you're asking, but I, I don't think there's any official— has not requested this from you yet. Well, I mean, I, I'm, I'm thinking it through right now as you guys are asking it. And, you know, it's like, yeah, I, I, uh, yeah, I'm not sure how to respond. I mean, I would look to the district. Do— does the district have a tracking list of, you know, the lessons learned from the projects, from the previous projects? Yeah. No, I mean, I think that there are some ways to capture some things in a more positive way that wouldn't be detrimental. So, for example, if if, if a certain faucet was used and it failed or was difficult to install or it was faulty, then the district could change their district standards to not use a certain faucet and to use a different one. And then— thank you for giving us a concrete example to visualize. Yeah, Martin could speak. Yeah, there you go. And that would be more of a design guideline, right? Yeah. Faucets, for example, that we put in, right? We use different brands. There was a particular brand that failed to continue to go, so we just continue that on. That was no good. That's our track record. I think in the spirit of the topic, which is on these big change orders, it's probably not a faucet, but it's something like, I, I don't know, I'm just, you know, when we do A, it seems to always lead to a cost overrun B. So that's a learning we should capture so that when we do these projects in the future, you know, we scope it accordingly. So, but, but to that, like, we have— he just mentioned by law they have to take the lowest bid, but have we ever done any analysis of the previous bids based on what this change order would have been to, say, the middle-tier bid that might have been higher? Oh, absolutely. So one of our, one of our projects, uh, that was one of the rougher projects with a contractor, uh, that was very difficult to work with. Once we completed the project, we went back and we looked at— they were the lowest bidder, and we looked at the change order, the total of the change orders that at the end of the project, and we compared it to the next lowest bidder, and it was— I, I believe it was actually less And we said, man, that was 3 years of hell, you know, getting through that project. But we were able to deliver. We were able to bring the entire project with the— from the lowest bidder selected with all of their change orders in under the next lowest bidder. And that's without even, you know, you know that that next lowest bidder would have had some change orders to bring that even higher. And they— it was still brought in, you know, right there. So. So we absolutely look at that at the end of every project. But, and, and you're seeing that consistently though, that the lowest bidder's getting— No, that's just, that was just one project specifically, one of, one of the big projects that was really difficult. I remember specifically us having that kumbaya moment at the end when we studied it. Oh my God, we just went through hell for 3 years, but the district got, you know, got the project completed, you know, beautiful new building. With all change orders included for less than the next lowest bidder. So that was, that made, you know, that was a, a positive moment for us to kind of, you know, celebrate the overall project coming in, you know, lower than, lower than that next lowest bidder. Okay, I have a random question. Uh, are there any DEI qualifications when awarding projects? Uh, I don't know. What, DEI? Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Are you doing women-owned contractors? Are you doing minority-owned contractors? Veterans? All RFPs have— does that figure into— I don't think that— I— there are certain— I don't think so. Uh, I would need to— we would need to look into that and, and report back. I, I mean, that might just be something the district needs to— and actually, I'm sorry, so what was the question specifically? Like, is any of that considered, or, or the contract selected? Yeah, whether, yeah, whether it's in the RFP or not. Yeah, is that taken into account? I don't know if you can. So they're not looking at lowest bidder? Yeah, I mean, our RFPs are different than public bids, and so all these construction projects are, you know, actual hard public bids that follow the CBOC legal process. So I guess you said DEI, like a DEI contractor could get pre-qualified, and if they were the lowest bidder, they would win. Okay, so there's no incentives, you know, it's, it's just the CBOC legal law. The lowest bidder wins, uh, the lowest pre-qualified responsive bidder wins. But couldn't it be factored into no-bid, uh, no-bid, no-bid contracts? Like, are you, are you, are you picking any vendors subjectively without going through that lowest bidder process where you— it could be factored in? I, I mean, we would need to discuss a response to that. You're saying, are we trying to select contractors that are minorities to do that lower work? No bid work has a, a, uh, inclusion policy, like a diversity policy, um, and it's come into play during your work. So I think everybody understands it probably wouldn't have been there in the beginning, but the question is, is there one now? Yeah, is there a process now that the district has that in anything that you can control to— for example, if a no-bid contract went out for fire alarm apparatus? I mean, there's a lot of contracts on here. Yeah, could it go to a minority or women-owned business or some other— it absolutely optimized based on the district. But the district hasn't directed you to do that, is what I'm— what we're hearing, right? No. Okay. No, not your fault. I'm just curious. Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm just trying to make sure that I'm responding to the questions you guys are asking. Um, no, you are doing a great job, so thank you. I'm, I'm trying to, uh— so the district has not directed us to prefer a contractor for— to— yeah, to, to select a No, to go with a specific contractor based on like a minority or whatever you're talking about, no. Is there anyone in the district that can look at this? The state has— catch up. Yeah, we can look at it. We can look at it, but again, we have to go with the lowest bid. So, well, that's why— that's why the no bid— I think we were talking— that's why the— the no bid— there's a lot of no bid contracts, I think, is the one the, the area we're focused on. Could those be— is the district interested in directing them in a certain way? And honestly, even with the, the lowest bidder, there might be some that happen to be— knowing that would be— I mean, on the no-bid contract, yeah, I'll, I'll look to the district to respond to that, to that piece of it. I mean, I, I don't know how to respond to that. We're looking. Yeah, but your answer was complete in that you have not so been directed. Sure, I can't say we're doing that because— okay, this— I think my one uncomfortable takeaway, Will, is that, um, if the district were to decide tomorrow that they no longer want to use your services and they want to use someone else's, you You've collected all this knowledge. I think we all heard that there's tremendous amount of knowledge, but my discomfort is that there's no way that it gets passed to the district to preserve beyond working with you. Well, the district is working with us on all of these projects, so they, you know, would be collecting this with us. There is a representative there as well reviewing the PCOs. I, they— I mean, yeah, I— you got kind of lost me there, Carl. Yeah, so it's, it's, I guess it's, um, it's in people's heads, right? It's in your head, it's at your firm, it's in Martin's head because he sat in on those, but it's not written down anywhere for future generations to know when we buy, uh, valves or whatever, faucets, that we shouldn't use this brand because it leads to a lot of change orders. And I'm not saying it's good, bad, or different. I'm just kind of characterizing what I've heard, that it's it's, it's knowledge in people's heads, but it's not institutionalized. Silence confirms you're accurate. Okay. Are you— institutional knowledge is— that is something that gets lost in all of these programs. That is just, you know, I'm sure Don Diaz walked away with tons of knowledge that wasn't passed to Martin, and when he goes Lots won't be passed along. We, uh, we, we joke about how, how we wish we could plug a hard drive into the back of Don Diaz's head. Sure, I'm sure. But you probably call him all the time as well, right? We do, absolutely. 29 years together. Okay, so that, that helps. I know he left binders and stuff. So I have, yeah, have a backup. As far as like products and things that, that portion, like if we're using that as a reference, that is retained, right, in some design standard, right? Martin, Martin and I have been on the phone with Don today, and Martin has been looking in— has, has been studying binders that Don left behind today, you know, looking for exact— exactly what you guys are asking. So they have a plan room at the facilities yard that has, you know, all the documentation and history of, you know, every project and everything that's been done, and That would be, that would be your, you know, lessons learned dump, I guess, is every, you know, the full document history package that the district has, you know, in their plan room and the team, the team that's involved with that is what I think. I'll just throw this out to you, Will, and you can come back at the next meeting if you'd like to answer. I would say To summarize, what would you like the public to know about cost-saving measures with respect to change orders on district bond projects? Well, we'll— I guess we'll get back to you at the next meeting on that. Okay. And it's perfectly fine to say, you know, we look for cost savings measures on every single change order and we try and— No, that's absolutely true. Not just every change order, every PCO. I think I said that earlier. Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm— well, I will be excited to report back on, you know, the change order percentages individual contracts, individual projects at the next, uh, next meeting. Yeah. Okay. Uh, any other discussion on, uh, change order 612? That was a healthy discussion. Um, 613, no bid contracts executed by the district since the last meeting. Um, we just started to talk about that with respect to DEI, um, objectives. Um, does anyone have anything they'd like to bring up or ask about with respect to the no-bid contract list. I do. Before we go into any weeds, what, what's the standard used to determine when it can go no-bid versus when it— like, great question. So under $60,000, no, no bids required. $60,000 to $200,000, you follow the CBOC process. There's a CBOC— a list of CBOC contractors that the district holds and keeps updated. Um, it's called an informal bid. And over $200,000 is called an official formal hard bid that has to be advertised, you know, twice in newspapers. So those are the 3 categories: under $60K, no bid; $60K to $200K, CBOC process, informal bid; $200,000 and above, official formal hard bid, 2 advertisements in the newspaper. Plan rooms, etc. Just as an example, on the— you've got one on here, KYA is the vendor, install play structure, soft flooring, $90,000. So that would fall in that second category, right? It's above $60,000. But there are, there are, there are other circumstances, you know, certain piggyback type agreements, CMOS type agreements that can allow you to go above the $60,000 threshold. So there are certain situations that are kind of outliers, I guess. Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Did you have a follow-on? Oh, just— so just trying to understand, like, if I was going to look for abuse of that, I'd look for ones that are just under that $60K, right, on the same day with the same entity. So it— what's the process around those? Like, I look at the dry coat one, right, that could easily be one big project of asphalt and be $100K, but they're broken into $55K and $59K. How do, how do I understand that? I mean, DRYCO does make up a big chunk, a big chunk of these no-bid contracts. When you total it up, it's about a quarter of the no-bid contracts. Yeah, they're, they're all in that just under $60K. Or could they— I mean, to your point, could they be dividing up, you know, pieces so that they don't have to be bid out? I guess is the the question. They're at two different sites, two different projects. Yeah, yeah. I mean, DRYCO is one, is one of the strongest, you know, asphalt site work type contractors that has had the most manpower availability and some of the best prices. So that's, that's the reason that the, you know, district, you know, continues to ask them for proposals, um, on the, you know, no bid under $60K threshold where So the district scopes the size of the projects and could be bundling them where they would then require a bid, or breaking them up where they fall in the, in the no bid. Uh, I'm not challenging, I'm just trying to understand what happens here. No, so I mean, if, if a project— if, if, if we were— if, if there was a, a project that we asked for a price from a contractor and it was, you know, $100,000 then you have to go through the full CUPCA informal bid process unless you have some kind of CMOS or piggyback type agreement that would allow you to, you know, contract at a higher value. Right. I guess I'm just trying to understand, Rick, your point. You say, like, oh, those are at 2 different school sites, so that's obvious. But then there's other ones that are all sites. So if you had scoped it as an all-sites asphalt that day— Well, I think to— I, I, I understand what you're saying. I think too that we're looking at this from the board date, right? So these may have not been— they were approved on the same date, that doesn't mean the projects were in line with each other. And the quote for one site could have been in the works for 3 months, the other one could have been in the works for 3 weeks. They just happened to go to the board on that date, right? So they're not— there wasn't an asphalt project at 3 school sites simultaneously where we said we need quotes for these. Oh, if you make them under $60 grand, we'll just give them to you, right? That would be bid splitting, right? And that's not, that's not what we're trying to do. Uh, certainly there's always economies of scale when you look at this, right? Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But something could have come up with one of these sites that was unforeseen, right? That we had to go and do asphalt with or to that, to that end. So I think— I'm not trying to pawn this off. I think there's some coincidental apathy here, whatever that word is, at 9 o'clock tonight that's happening with board approval dates and projects that look similar. But it doesn't mean they were part of a larger project that was split out to meet this Measure S, because we could do 3 $60,000 projects under informal bid and Demko would probably still get all 3 projects for $180,000. So, so we take that into account as well. Do you ever see multiple, like, multiple no-bids for one site? Would that be a flag for the auditor if there was like DICO that said, okay, $59, but oh, I forgot there was the side, side parking space that I needed to do as well for another 8 or something? Does that ever, does that ever come up? Just out of curiosity, you mean, so we had a contract for $59,000 and a change order for 10%, right? Or if it, if it's another no-bid, would they— you— would it be a PCO if it was the same site? Well, it depends on what the project was, right? Okay. Um, with asphalt, we would hope that we could spec it all for that one. Okay. For that one, if it was part, part of the project. Well, I, I think there's also economy to award where all these small projects, if you tried to bundle them into a larger project, there's a duration to award that you get into. And then also the cost of producing that contract is also higher. So I mean, sometimes it just makes sense to have these smaller, quicker awards. So I would assume that's— sorry, I didn't put words in. Oh no, I think, I think, I think you were I think what you said is right. Yeah, yeah. I will say though, um, I've worked with Dryco. They're, they're fine. And, um, I stopped working with them because they were the cheaper sub, but their quality wasn't as good as some of the others, which wouldn't be something we could do here anyways. Like Anza or McGuire Hester, um, would— I would say perform better, but they cost more. But I mean, it would make sense that even if you bid them out they would be competitive, probably. But question, do you do any contracts that are job order classification? Which are— it's like, yeah, according to— I think, I think the county does it for construction projects, and it's like— I haven't heard that term. So what does that mean? It's a job— certain contractors that, like, if they formulate what the work is, the whole scope is broken out into, like, literally you can break down to, like, nails needed to screw to whatever equipment, every part of the scope. There's a price and listed in this Bible of costs. I, I don't believe so. Okay. Yeah. All right. Um, it looks like for this period that, um, other than the pending no-bid contracts, all were approved by the board. Um, do you recall any no-bid contracts that have not been approved by the board? I, I don't believe so. Okay. And, and then specifically for last fiscal year where we have to write our report back on this question, were there any no-bid contracts from fiscal '21-'22— I think I have that right— that were not approved by the board? I don't believe so. Okay. All right, other questions, or— it's funny, I sent a mess— I sent an email to Will saying, oh, you don't have to come to the meeting, Will, we don't have you on the formal agenda. Thank you for showing up. Absolutely, no problem. Well, they're all, all good questions. Yeah, and I think too, for this committee to hear, you know, uh, and Will and I talked this morning, he told me about the email, but Will's an extension of our program, right? Him and our Jim Kramer are our bond program managers, right? So, uh, they're working on our behalf, uh, with all of the things that Will talked about tonight in coordination with Martin, myself, Dr. Baker, uh, as we go through this, right? So they're— we've brought them on as our bond program managers to be an extension of our district so that we don't go— so that we don't have to go and hire individual people that we'd have a harder time getting to run our program for us. So I just want everyone to also know that, that it's more than just sitting here and, and answering questions. They are an extension of our organization. Clearly, yes. Thank you for that. And I just comment that normally Will would present on the agenda, at least in my tenure, an update on the bond project at these meetings. And I suggest you, just in the order of time— and it was probably a good move that we not do it this time because we had so many other things— but as I mentioned to you in the email, Will, if you wanted to share that with the committee, you know, outside of the regular meeting, just send around an update on the projects. I'm sure it would be very appreciated because we always like that report, and it gives you a chance to show off the great work that's being done. Absolutely. Okay, moving on to 614, then we have a list of the new bond projects that have been approved by the board since the last meeting, and that's Attachment 614 totaling— looks like $2.5 million in new projects with approval dates. Any questions from the committee members on this roughly, I guess, what, about 15, uh, new projects that have been approved. And just for the record, this goes back to December 8th, 2021. We brought in all projects. Okay, so this is because that had not been presented before in this format, so we went back. Good, good point of clarification. Thank you. Um, when you say all projects, what do you mean? Uh, the board-approved project list that were outside of the scope of the major projects. But these are still Measure T funded, correct? Correct, yes. And most of them are recent because that was when you started to spend the money, the leftover money, right, after you saw that the major projects were finishing up? Correct. So, so this was all contingency fund or leftover funds from it, or cost savings or additional revenue brought in through those measures that will allowed us to do projects beyond our original anticipated scope. Could you speak to EV chargers? I see those charged to the bond fund, about $100,000, it looks like. I know that there was a separate fund that was— I can't remember if it was PG&E or the state or something funded EV chargers and infrastructure and such. What, what are these specific 3 that are paid for out of the bond by the district from the district bond fund? These are associated with the new construction project. So these are the new classroom building projects that have, you know, new parking lots. There are EV chargers right there near the new buildings. And these couldn't be funded under the same whatever the initiative— No, we, we try, we try. Uh, the PG&E EV— that's a great question. The PG&E EV Charge Network program was, you know, they had money years ago and we took advantage of as much of it as we could. I think we were able to do just under 100 charge chargers at 4 sites. There were strict requirements to be able to get the PG&E grant. You had to be able to do like over 18 or 20-ish chargers per site. And the district was able to leverage, you know, multi-million dollars worth of grants from PG&E to support those projects. But there was that— that— those grants did not apply, and I believe the money had all run out So these ones were, yeah, purchased by the district through Measure T to support the new construction project. Could you comment on rear parking lot at Garfield paving, you know, $800,000? Garfield was a big project. Was there a reason this wasn't included in the scope of the overall project? Yeah, so Garfield is an interesting site because if any of you have been there, There's no street parking, and there are no parking lots or anything near the site. There's a church next door that I believe you guys have tried to negotiate with and get them to let you use that as additional parking for staff. But the site didn't have enough, you know, just didn't have enough parking. So as part of the original design package, there was an expanded parking lot. So we expanded the front parking lot. And the teachers and staff began using it, you know, of course the parents have their stalls for parents as well. There still wasn't enough parking, um, for the staff to be able to adequately park there. And so, uh, the board approved an additional rear parking lot with, you know, leftover contingency money so that their staff would be able to park on site. Did that take away the baseball field? That was back there. Nope, nope. Okay, took over the church. Yeah, but yeah, no, that was not envisioned. I know that original Garfield project you're saying that— well, the— at a parking lot expansion was absolutely envisioned, but the parking lot expansion still was not enough. And so I know that that project was really, really well taken by the site, um, because now the staff are adequately able to park at the site and walk in to teach rather than you know, going all over neighborhoods, all over the town. Yeah, like that would be a lesson learned. I would love documented that type of a thing where like there wasn't enough parking. We should be assured before the project begins or goes in for planning that parking stalls are enough. Mhm. I know that gets, that gets put into the print. Like for example, we get the, the final and then, uh, like just say like you have a— I don't know, we call them like, uh, one, the degree So the final, the one before the final, we would make notes of it, right? Yeah, and I know that, like, you put notes on things that I'd be saying, hey, parking lot, because of this missing— and the architects, I, I believe the architects are the ones that study, you know, the site, the number of teachers and number of staff. And, you know, we said we want— we need to expand this parking lot, um, so, you know, they study it, they put together, you know, the quantities, you know, we, we review it, it makes sense, and then you build it and it actually starts getting used, you know, a bunch of parents in flux parking all the stalls, there's no parking available on the street, the staff are trying to find parking, they can't park to get, you know, get there. And so that was kind of what drove it there. But absolutely, I hear you loud and clear that, you know, that could be a potential lessons learned. So it wasn't part of the Master Plan, the original part, but not the rear— the rear expansion was Okay, well, correct me if I'm wrong on this one. I remember with Garfield there was the plan to expand that front parking lot. Um, it wasn't really considered by the architects as that was never even a parking area, but it was used by construction workers. Um, oh, you're talking about the rear area? Yeah, we, we created a laydown area. Yeah, sort of became a parking lot suddenly. Everybody was like— I think that was the trigger. Yeah, we add one parking spaces. Yeah, with that, and, and the big thing was without, and without, uh, disturbing the city-shared field that's used for soccer, baseball, and making sure that the parking lot was protected from the baseball field with the higher fence, etc. Uh, one more from me, and can you talk about the last one, MUB in-wall tables at Henry Ford? Does anyone know what that is? Martin, you want to speak to that? Our pocket lunch tables that come out within the cafeteria, you seen the one, put up, uh, you can use the building for multiple things, play basketball, whatever. Is this the new building? Um, no, wait, this is Henry Ford. So existing— was this building renovated under— okay, so how do table— because equipping is only for facilities that have been renovated are built per what we discussed earlier. So how would tables in an existing, uh, room be bond-appropriate spending? It'd be considered part of the modernization of that site, I believe. Modernization of this MUB, uh, building, or what does MUB stand for? Multi— yeah, the entire site was modernized. So when an entire site's modernized, architects go through and look at existing buildings and you know, what they need additionally. Um, at the time, you know, the architects, you know, either the, you know, the tables didn't have the issue, or, I mean, I, I don't know what the exact situation was, but it's an, it's an add-on to the overall modernization of that site. And yeah, I believe that building stays where it is in the Master Facilities Plan for future work. So it makes sense to do it. It's not going to be undone. Off the top of my head, I believe the tables were— Absolutely were. Absolutely. They were up— Are these projects complete, most of them? Not, not these— any— these are okay. Not the, uh— it's important. Yeah, the last 4 that were just approved on— by the board on April 26th were approved as budgetary, um, and so those are all, you know, working through procurement right now, minus the MUB and wall tables, which, you know, procurement's completed, but the work has not been completed yet. Other questions or discussion on 614? All right, so that closes out 6-1. Um, I think it was a very healthy discussion, very educational for the committee. Thanks to the district and Will for preparing the materials and going through and answering a lot of questions on them. I know I, I found it to be a really good use of the committee's time, so thank you. Uh, 6.2, any update from the district on filling what used to be 2, but I guess it's now 3 vacancies? Yeah, I'll make this brief in the interest of time. Uh, we are still continuing outreach, uh, between our, uh, Communications Department as well as Dr. Baker has met with, uh, several local organizations lately. Uh, and at this point, we expect to fill, um, in the next— I'll say in June, potentially. Uh, so there'll be— our goal is to have it fully seated for the August meeting with the 2 or now the 3 vacancies. It would be with the 3. Okay, perhaps, uh, we still have to have more discussion about that, uh, uh, as, as we move forward, but we'll come back and let you guys know what's going on with that. Any, uh, anything else on 6.2? Okay, thanks, Rick. 6.3, um, The, the website, which has gone through changes and has been a topic of interest by the public about making information easily accessible. And that's certainly one of our key objectives, is that what happens in this room is great, but we need to have the public be informed. So this was just an open discussion on the current state of the website, whether we want to suggest changes to it. The district runs it. It, and any comments about how it's working today and if it needs to change. And at 9 o'clock, it may be people are out of ideas, but, um, you sent an example website that seems— I did send around, uh, one that, uh, I can't remember the name of it now. Um, I, I pinged a few people. Do you have any, uh, some of these California CBOC folks. I asked, hey, what, what does a great website look like? Um, and I'm still waiting to get some responses, but there was one that was sent, and, um, happy to share the, the link for the minutes. Um, I can send it to you, Olivia, but, uh, does anyone have it handy? That would be— um, my only feedback would be, I I would like to see our website and even materials like the agenda be more accessible for our Spanish-speaking population. And we, we know, like, if you need disability accommodation, but we should have a provision that also says the same thing in Spanish and makes it more readily accessible. But Whittier looked good but didn't do that, didn't accomplish that. So the, the one that— the example that I had sent was South Whittier School District. It was just one, not picked for any other particular reason. I'll provide the link to you, Rick and Olivia, if you want to put it in the minutes. And for those who want to go look at what, what appealed to me about it, it was very simple. There's no, you know, it's not stylistically elegant or beautiful, but it has all of the information in one page. It's the members, it's the agenda, it's the open applications, it's all the audit reports, it's the CBOC reports, it's the state of the projects, and it's just very easy to find in one place anything you'd want to know about what the Bond Oversight Committee is doing. So does anyone have any other suggestions or comments on this topic? And then I guess the question to the district would be, if the committee would like to see some changes in the CBOC portion of the district website, what would be the best way to communicate these requests? principal, and then forward those off to me. Then we can discuss how we make those. Does anyone want to volunteer to work with me on this topic as maybe an ad hoc— whatever the, uh, it says in the bylaws— ad hoc subcommittee or committee or— Rick, you'll have to look at the board. Carl, I need to, I need to step away. I have a family issue came up, so I apologize, everybody. Thank you. I thought you were volunteering to help with the website committee. Trying to get your help. So is that not the case? No. Does anyone want to volunteer or just trust me? I, I can do it. Carl, you want to work with the two Carls? Yeah. Anybody else? Yeah, perfect. Okay, do we have to do anything to formally execute a committee? Nope. Okay, great. Not on that hot one. The two Carls have taken an action item to put a proposal forward to the district to update the website. Okay, that is 6.3, and we're almost to the end of Measure T. Agenda topics for the next meeting. And then we'll just discuss Measure S updates briefly from the district, and then we'll adjourn. So for the next meeting, does anyone have any topics beyond the, the what I would call the typical things that we would cover in one of these meetings? Is there anything that anyone would like to see on the next agenda? I, I would just remind the committee that Jacqueline had feedback to provide from the school site. I don't know if that's something— I don't know what the topic is to know whether that's an agenda item or something for hearing. She never even got a just chance to address her— thank you for bringing that up. A site, a site issue. Thanks, Martin. Gracias. Mi preocupación, o como madre, no, lo que quería transmitirles era cómo esta organización, no, ayuda o procura la equidad para la, para el uso de los recursos, porque sabemos que las diferentes I am here to, I'm, I'm here to interpret. Gracias. Okay, awesome. Yes, my concern is, as a mother, um, how does this organization ensure equity of the use of the resources? As we know, for instance, there's many schools For instance, here I don't see Hoover, for example. Yeah. Um, algunas, o sea, quizá está, pero con una cantidad pequeña de lo que se va a gastar, y considero que hay muchas necesidades en escuela, como el aire acondicionado. Los salones son muy, muy calientes en el verano. Este, el sistema de seguridad que identificamos, que a través del tiroteo que hubo en el parque de al lado, el sistema de seguridad no era el apropiado. Entonces, claro que nos preocupa la seguridad de nuestros hijos, ¿no? Este, sabemos que la comunidad de ahí presenta pues este tipo de situaciones, no. Entonces nos preocupa eso, no, la seguridad, este, el aire acondicionado. En el área de preescolar, el— un segundo, un segundo. And we know that, yes, maybe Hoover was here, but the amount of money allocated for Hoover is very small in relation to the rest. For instance, Hoover has many needs The AC system is very antiquated. We have very warm summers, and the classrooms are very, very hot. Also, our security system is not up to par. There was a shooting at the park next door to us. So as parents, this is very concerning for us, the security of our children. And our community feels that these are very difficult challenges, and we would like some equity in this regard with the AC El área de juegos de los más chiquitos de preescolar no es accesible para los niños en silla de ruedas, por ejemplo, ¿no? Porque aparte de que hay que subir una rampita, ya cuando suben la rampa tiene cachitos de troncos, o sea, como no es una superficie lisa, lisa. Los niños no se pueden deslizar si tuvieran silla de ruedas. Si usan muletas, no podrían accesar a esos juegos. Me refiero a la zona de los más pequeños. Also, in regards to the play structure for the littlest kids, the pre-K area, the play structure is not accessible to kids with wheelchairs or even crutches. There is a ramp, but the ramp is not over a smooth surface, so someone with a wheelchair or crutches would not be able to access it. I'm referring to the pre-K playground. There's also no shade. The play structure, the sun hits directly, so it's very, very hot. The kids can't play under, and there's also no shade. Very warm, very hot. Otra preocupación que tenemos es que en los salones que son destinados para educación especial, en los corredores están ocupados por las sillas de ruedas, que sabemos que son grandes o voluminosas y ocupan ese espacio para, pues están en el paso, no. Entonces quizás sí algunos fondos se pudieran destinar a edificios, no sé, de mejor acceso para los niños de educación especial que están en Hoover. No sé, no sé si correspondan estos comentarios aquí, ¿verdad? Pero bueno, son las preocupaciones que, que como padres hemos, este, o como mamá he escuchado de de otros, de otros padres que he visto en las escuelas, porque mi hija tiene 4 años en esa escuela, la conozco muy bien. Y pues también agradezco la oportunidad que me dan de compartir estas ideas, porque pues de la misma manera quisiera aprender cómo más padres pueden involucrarse y Another concern is in regards to special ed classrooms. The hallways are constantly used in that section for wheelchairs. As we know, wheelchairs can be very bulky, so they're always in the way. I feel that maybe some funds should be allocated to focus on this issue, have more accessibility, um, in this regard. And also, I'm not sure if my comments are appropriate for this forum or not, but as a parent, these are my concerns and the concerns of other parents in our school. My daughter has been at Hoover for the past 4 years, so I know my daughter very well and I know her needs. Thank you so much for allowing me to share my concerns with you all, and I look forward for the opportunity to learn more about how us parents can be more involved in making these decisions for the well-being of our children in an equitable way. So those will go before the board. So I'll ask the item— Okay, I'll take this to the board. This is part of what the board does, and it meets with myself and Marty and Will and his team on the other items that will be possibly put on the list, which are just that, still the same, that are requests from community members. The part about Hoover— Hoover got the main gymnasium. And I, I think some of you probably all went and saw that, right? I don't know how many millions of dollars that, that generation cost. Yeah, Hoover was the fourth, I think the fourth largest project budget out of the 16 sites, and it does have a cutting-edge security system as well, right? It was $17.8 million as of last— as the, the prior report. Yeah, two, two, two reports ago, right? So, so with that being And I know about the air conditioning. That is something that we've heard from many community members within Redwood City, not only at Hoover, but— —wide. So the board has really taken that into heavy consideration with Measure S because of the needs that the children, the parents, the teachers have communicated that loud and clear during the time when and we were moving forward to get the bond passed. The other piece regarding the play structures, the shade, the play area, that's something that we can bring to the board and see what dollar they're left and if we can still manage that in some fashion or look at Measure S as it moves forward. But at the same time, there are— for Measure S, There are many different types of plans already in place for this next phase, and when we get to Hoover, we'll have to meet with the community. Is that still what we want, or is it not? Do we go in a different direction? Are you meeting with every school community? Yeah, yeah. So the Master Facilities Plan will be updated accordingly for Measure S and the T, right? Exactly. So I think, uh, maybe to summarize— thank you. Dr. Baker, I think to summarize, this committee really looks retroactively, right? We're looking at things already approved, projects already built, money already spent. It's the district and the board's responsibility to select projects, spend money, complete construction. So these comments are really important to hear. This is probably not the right forum for them. So the question, Dr. Baker, I think, is if the public has an interest in proposing certain projects or speaking about areas in schools that should be improved with bond money, what's the process that we should be telling— They should come before the board, and exactly as she has done. So for these items that have come before you tonight that are with the additional dollars that we save, PTOs, school site councils had to come, come before the board and ask if there are extra dollars, can this be done? And so what I hear from Hoover, there is definitely some of the items here are some of the items for the next phase because of items that were expressed, but then there are smaller items like the playground I'm not sure. The shade, we would have to look and see what, what that looks like. The shade shelter I can put at many different school sites where you have a lunch covering. Is that, is that what's needed? Or is it— what we did at Selby Lane was the umbrellas. The umbrellas. We did the umbrellas at Selby Lane. Oh yeah, the, the picnic table, right? Because there wasn't enough— uh, the code wouldn't allow us to put, to put the shelter because it was too close to building, right? Didn't Uber get on that list too? Uber, I believe, did get— I think they— I guess they do have umbrellas, and it's right there in the section where the library is, eating area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, but Jacqueline pointed out that the new play structure, the little kids can't play there because it's too hot for them to go out. So the new, the play structure, that's an item that if there is, if there are dollars left over, that's something that we bring before the board and say, here's another item. How much does the play structure cost? We can check with Will to see what they cost at— I think there was one that's in at Roosevelt and— Right, Kindergarten. Yeah, Kindergarten. We've got a few that we can pull in. Right. So we can, you know, we know what the cost is. To the reference of going out and seeing where it would be placed. No, absolutely. We, I mean, like right now as we speak, we have 3 vendors that are proposing on the Roosevelt Place structures, different options, so we can understand, you know, the exact current market value of, you know, different sizes and different options that'll fit within the approved budget. So absolutely, um, so her comments tonight, I'm going to take that to the board. And Janet's here, so she can— Sure. But I guess the, the question I have is a more general one that it's great because she's here in this— she's a committee member, she gets to talk to you directly, and you, Janet, get to hear this directly. But if I'm— if someone comes up to one of us as committee members and says, oh, you're on the bond committee, we need a new blah, blah, blah, I want to be able to tell them, well, I can't really help you with the new blah, blah, blah, but this is the process that you follow to get this on the district's radar. And I guess my question is, am I supposed to go to the site council, the principal? Do I go to my— please do. Board— we have board meetings twice a month. There's oral communication. We're online. You don't have to be present. You can do it online and just express your concerns and what your needs are. We never turn away. People do that almost every meeting. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but she's still subcommittee member, and we're all parents representing a school, or schools plural, in some capacity or the other. I've asked questions about, you know, Orion before, just out of curiosity. So, you know, to be fair, I think that, you know, I think she's just very curious about her own home school. Makes sense because we're all, you know, you are curious about how, where the district will go with certain programs. I think we all expressed that we're here for Measure S to find where the funding would be, where would it go to, what, how it's going to get allocated. I'm not saying we all have a hidden agenda, but we do have— we do have some. As long as it's not a bully pulpit to, uh— I think it is, but I'm sure that we all have interest in wanting to know where— requests for upcoming projects, ones that have not been done yet, need to go to the board. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know, but I'm— that's my question, is the— is— does the parent go directly to the board member, or does the district have an intake process for ideas? That, that was my question. It sounds like— There's a process for intake of ideas. See what happens with Measure S. At this point in time, with the— there's a small amount of money that's left, and we have had individuals, individual parents, individual community members come before the board and ask, what about this? We take it and we created a list of priority okay, because I have an idea, so I want to know how to do it too. I'm going to come to the board then. These are ones that came to us, yeah, after the— so I, I have a vested interest in knowing how the process works because I have an idea. Send an email. Okay, will do. And it brings them right back. All board members bring their emails back at the end of a board meeting, and it's— and how do you, uh, maybe this is off topic, or maybe it's an agenda item for— I'm just going to propose it as an agenda item for the next meeting, how the district prioritizes— prioritize it for board, let the board discuss it, because it's really a board activity. It's a board proactive measure. They need to do it. That's their responsibility. Absolutely. One operational comment that she had, where, uh, about the storage in the, uh, hallways, um, and I, I think wheelchairs are— there's wheelchair— making it difficult to access the areas. Um, that's a play safety issue with— that's something that we can look at right away. Yeah, we all— so my, my proposal is to have an agenda item at the next meeting where the district can present how you prioritize bond project spending. And it'll be very timely because Measure S is going to spend a lot of money, um, and it'll be informative, I think, to the committee how the decision-making process We know it gets approved by the board, but how does— if there are 500 ideas, how do 4 of them get to the board? Some kind of winnowing, winnowing process is happening, and just to have some visibility as to what— how that happens. We had a board discussion with the previous board meeting when the budget was presented. Yeah, we did. About how the projects get prioritized? No, about— oh yeah, all the projects and the prioritization. Yeah. Okay. Other agenda? Sorry, sorry. Yes, please participate in this conversation. So I would just note that Jacqueline is now the second committee member to raise equity and concerns about how equity is being looked at and addressed in these decisionings. I was the first, and it wasn't addressed at that time. So we're getting— it's been raised a couple of times by different board members. And so I would again repeat what I had requested before, which was a, you know, information or a presentation from the board on how they factor in equity and making these decisions. And then I just wanted to, to share, to make sure we all level set and have the same understanding that there was a Master Plan a long time ago, before the last bond measure, that looked at all the things they wanted to do in the district. And I'm gonna grossly misstate this, so feel free to correct it— that there wasn't enough money in the first bond, and so they prioritized about half the work. Well, whatever it was, a third, with the plan to go for a new bond to do the rest of the work in that big— another third. There's, there's three phases. Okay, but in the big Master Plan, um, and so four-ish school sites, three or four Garfield, Taft, Hoover, and is it Kennedy that got the bulk of the work in the first phase? Oh, Ryan got most of the money from the last 7 years of bond work, and then the other schools haven't had very much. And some of that is reflected in, in this one, and it goes by school and it shows how much, at least as of last year, were spent. So Hoover has had a significant investment in it. But there— the district couldn't do all of the schools and all of the projects because there was never enough money in there. And so some of the schools have gotten significantly less than Hoover and are waiting for future bond measures. But it, it raises the equity question. And just, I think you were on the phone when I asked it, but I asked if we could look at by student how we've allocated spend to make sure that we're thinking about all of the students across the district, across the planning. And so just, just echoing that equity should be front of mind, and we should maybe hear how it's being handled. How does that align with the age of the building? Right. Yeah, I, I had asked that. It doesn't actually align. Rick provided the age of the buildings, and it doesn't align to that. I've suggested an agenda item, and Let me know if this— so for the next meeting, to discuss how new spending will be prioritized, what the process is, not to discuss the priorities, but just to understand the process, including how equity is being considered in the Master Plan review. Would that satisfy your request to hear something on the topic? Yeah, I had requested it before. I just, I'm just pointing out we've heard it twice now. Okay. Yeah, that's it. I'm just saying I don't know if that's correct. For us as much as it is for the— well, for us, uh, we want to be aware of cost savings measures, and, and right, that could be— so knowing how the process, the prioritization and selection process works, might help us. This is just my take, might help the committee understand where these cost-saving suggestions could be introduced, if the— if you're willing to go with the flow here for a minute. Yeah, I expect that it would be a brief update from the district letting us know that they have not factored equity in. But, but we, we've— there's been two board members who've now asked how equity is factored in. Yeah, and I mean, I mean, that borders on another question I'm saying about a curiosity. Why did the CBOC get the, you know, $70 million, whatever— I don't know the next number, I apologize, but, but the, the money just for the gym when there possibly could have been more other projects? How was that determined? Was that just an architectural choice? Was PTA and site council at that school, you know, consulted? I mean, it's just a broader question how the site plan was done back 5 years ago. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, this all has to be updated, right? About how the Master Facilities Plan was done. Maybe that could be a feature. So that— I'm, I'm writing that into this agenda item here. This could be a nice, you know, guest presentation at the next meeting. Making sure site councils and PTAs at the local schools as a side note, would be awesome so that they know they might have some skin in the game to come to board meetings and actually make a dent in their school progress if they want for them, for this kind of response. You're going to have people want to lift up their hand, and that's natural. I think that makes sense. Everybody wants to have a, a say. I think a presentation of the Master Plan, of where it came from and where it's potentially going, would be huge for us to see and to have on our website to have everyone— I think that would be a good website one, because I— you did have to do quite a little digging, and that should be viewable by the public and advertised. I don't think it's even available. Yeah, no, it's— but it will be. It's not on the current website. It's not on ours, but I believe it is available as a public— okay, duly noted as an agenda item for the next one. And Carl— the two Carls will take it up for the website. On our committee, the Carl and Carl Committee. Um, any other agenda items for the next meet— I do have one more, by the way, which is we do need to review, um, the report, which is not yet authored for fiscal '21-'22. The committee needs to produce a report. We just— whatever we decided in your motion, Carl, we just put this one forward, right? So now we need one, um, that this committee writes for uh, fiscal '21-'22. And we should— now that the audit reports are done, we should write that report and review it at the next meeting. Does that sound correct? Is that a meeting, though, to do the report to review? Is that an internal meeting? That was my question. Well, let's talk through— since this committee with the folks we have on right now has not actually ever authored the annual report, we could talk through briefly what the process is to author it and then bring it to the committee in the public forum to approve it and pass and release it. I think— So our bylaws note that the committee chair shall prepare or cause to be prepared a final written report. Which section is that? It doesn't say. Just spin. Well, the— Wait, no, I read that differently. Just, I'm sorry to be a pain in the butt. The first sentence says the committee shall prepare regular reports. A report shall be issued at least once a year, right? Uh-huh. So that refers to the committee. Then below it says upon completion of all projects authorized by the bond measure, the chair shall prepare. So that to me is at the end of T. Okay. So I was thinking that the first part of the annual report is prepared by the committee, and the final— what do you— how do you read it? Sounds good to me. How do you get the whole committee to prepare a report? Well, so the, the district offers us administrative and technical support. I'm sure they could help by providing at least soft copies of some of the things from the last report, like the letter, and then we can work from there and update. It's— if you look at the old one, right, it has basically all the reports that have already been provided to us and then a letter. Um, but I guess it's a matter of us seeing if we want to keep the content, keep the— and there may be new content to bring in, or, um, so, uh, I'd like to suggest that a subcommittee be formed to write the report. Question? I'm not, I'm not moving. I don't think we have to have a, a motion on it, but, um, since you're actively engaged in this discussion, Jitpal, would you be interested in being on the authoring committee? I'm not trying to twist anyone's arm, but how is this— did Michael do every part of this? Did the board help? Did Will help? How, how did it get created? Great question. Thank you. Does anyone know? Uh, John, do you know? Do you know how this was prepared? John, it was prepared— Priscilla at the time, previous CBOC, and, um, also Olivia, and then also the fact how of the council. He brought in those entities along with the chair, and I think he had another person. Reviewed minutes of the meetings of everything that was done. I mean, most of it— I mean, if you were to copy what's here, 99% of it we've already seen. It's the audit reports, it's, uh, the, the, the budget expenditure It's a summary of the meetings that happen, and then there's kind of the letter on top of it. So if you were to just do exactly what's here, really the effort is just assembling the materials, which I'm sure the district could help with. There is a section here that summarizes the work that was done during the period. I don't even know if that even needs to be in there. Maybe it's good for the public to see. I think it already exists from the board reports that happened. So it's really what the subcommittee needs to do is to agree what the content should be, give an outline of those to the district so those materials can be compiled, and then basically author the one-page letter that goes on the front. Would there be any different content, or could we just say same content? Update it. If this is still Measure T, the context should actually not— it should stay the same, and we're only making the changes thus far, correct? So I believe any of these follow-up meetings that we've seen with budgetary— probably the only thing that would change would be the numbers, I'm assuming. Well, be the numbers for the fiscal year 2021-22, right? Yeah, this one it hasn't— you can just changing in reporting. So you could— I think that one option is to certainly do exactly what you said. Another option would be to do that and maybe supplement some additional public awareness that wasn't in this report. For example, the change orders, the 10% above, whatever they were called, the futility, the futility, the report on those, the, you know. So there could be some additional transparency inserted beyond based on what we've learned tonight. Yes, I, I agree. Thank you. We were to do— as we ask questions tonight, I think also for Cheryl, I don't know how you feel about that, but— well, I, I think the ones that have been completed, you know, completion date 5/25/2018, those come out. The ones that are in here that, you know, estimated completion, we confirm the date and the budget, maybe a fresh picture. And, you know, to Carl's point, attach the audit and then write a new letter. So it's kind of refresh and repeat. Somebody want— But would you like to include something like that at the end that you do ask for, like, the percent change? I don't think that needs to be part of the report because this is a higher level and we're just talking like the budget and then the expenditure. So the change orders would be included in the expenditure. But essentially, it looks like what we're saying in this is, is the project finished and did it come in on time, under budget, you know, that type of thing. Not the, the change orders, probably just for us to review on an— Okay. And there is an audit included in here, and to have any analysis outside of that audit would kind of— it could create a conflict between that information. Relying professionals in there. Thank you. And Olivia, you have the template, correct? It might be the template. But you have, you have a Word doc or something that he sent you? Um, okay. So I think the, uh, once again, to kind of scope what this subcommittee— or it could just be one individual, uh, steps up, um, would basically outline what needs to change from what's in here so the district can prepare. Obviously fresh reports, the correct audit report, any new information that we're requesting, which sounds like there isn't any beyond what we've already reviewed. And then just summarize— and there is a section here where the meetings are covered that happened during that fiscal year. I'm sure Olivia could provide a quick outline of what meetings happened, who attended. Did we get our 4 meetings in? I don't— maybe that there were, I, I don't recall. So, and then it's just, uh, updating the, the letter. So in the meeting section, I would request that we also include the site visits going— it's a report of our activities for the year, and I think committee did go do site visits, and I think that's important for the public to know. You did them in '21-'22? We did. Yes, I remember in '22, in the fall, did you do them last school year too? We did. Some, some of us did. And they were actually, I think, noticed as, as public meetings as well. So we're still preparing the report for '21-'22, which is prior to our I care some of— exactly, some for the new members. So, um, yes, so I think the, the four of us, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, it was Carl, Jit Paul, myself, and Jen that were on the, uh, committee during part of that fiscal year, not the whole thing. We joined, um, somewhere along the way. Our first meeting was September of '21, so we did miss a few months of, of with, but I think the term date starts— does anyone— Olivia, do you have it handy when, when that board— when the four of us actually were, uh, approved by the board? Was it June of '21? Okay, so the four of us were on for that, so I think the responsibility should naturally fall to us to write the report. I mean, I'm happy to, to, to, uh, to be on this. Would anyone like to work with me? Yeah, that's fine. I mean, a majority of this is actually going to come from the board, right? Yes. Well, from the district will provide the materials. We just need to outline if there's anything new that we want and then just update the letter. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Are the— is the district publishing one? Meaning, are they doing a process? Well, it's more of an assembly. I mean, if you look through this, it's the budget report that the district already prepares and shares with us. It's the audit reports we just reviewed. So those are, you know, we already have. So I think— is your— is it a technical question, like who builds the PDF? Is that your question? Basically, I'm pretty good at Adobe. It could be either us or— I think Olivia had to pull this one together because Michael was gone already. Um, okay, so one of the two of us work together. Our objective will be to bring— what's that? The letter— the report wasn't good because the— the June meeting never— you didn't even have— got canceled. But, um, I thought we had to edit something in this, Olivia, so if you could check. I think there's a Word doc for this, at least for the letter. Anyway, he sent that Yeah, yeah. So Jen and I will take this on, and our objective is to bring a— to have a draft report for approval at our next meeting in 3 months. Can we get the 4 attachments? Yeah, why don't you and I— let's come up with a list of all the attachments we want, and we'll, we'll just consolidate it to Rick, and I'm sure his crack team will pull it all together for us. So plan to review the report in advan— when it's published, 3 days in advance, review it, and then we'll hopefully approve it at the next meeting. How's that sound? And we'll be back on our regular schedule. Okay, any other— just to close out this topic, sorry, any other topics for the next agenda? Okay, we're about to adjourn, but first we wanted to get a brief update from the district on something that we obviously are passionate about, which— what's happening with Measure S. Um, so there's two items on the agenda here. One, a report on, on bond issuance, and a second, a report on bond project selection. So Rick, is that— you want to provide an update on these? I'm just going to kind of put it all together as one item. Yeah, perfect. 7.1 and 7.2. Uh, at this time we don't have a bond issuance date. Uh, we are meeting with our financial advisors next week week to try and determine that, so we would have more information to report out in the future. And at this point, uh, only Dr. Baker and I have discussed the process of prioritization and project selection, uh, and we have not started that process yet. So that'll be upcoming, uh, starting in June and over the summer. And did— is there litigation Um, there was litigation. It was dismissed this week, and now we're waiting to see the next steps. How long does the process typically take if you decide, you know, until money is in, in the account, roughly? From when we decide to sell? Yeah, depending on when that is. Um, It's very shortly after the sale date. It's not very long at all. So if we were ready to go out in 3 weeks, we'd probably have the money in 4 weeks. Got it. Okay. I forgot to mention at the outset, but just so everybody recalls this, that the board expanded the scope— passed a resolution to expand the scope of the Measure T CBOC to include Measure S. I think everyone is aware of that. There's going to be— there is one CBOC. The scope is to cover both bonds, and we've actually removed— correct me if I'm wrong, Cameron— any reference to any specific bond from the bylaws. So this is the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee for any bond that would fall under the purview of such oversight. So anybody have any commentary on that, or comfortable with that moving forward? I need new name tags. New name, new name tags. Yes, uh, remove the Measure T for the next meeting from the name cards. Okay, any, uh, other questions on Measure S from anybody? There's no information to really talk about, right? So we'll just wait. Nothing to talk about. You're I'm not everybody on that. That's fine. Okay, that's— it's been motion dismissed granted, is that status? Correct. But just waiting. Yeah, just let us know. We will. Okay, is there anything else before we adjourn the meeting? I just want to say I think this has been a really great meeting. I appreciate the participation from everybody here. It seems like everyone was really engaged and, um, and active and had looked at the materials and had great questions and And thanks again to the district for bringing additional stuff. So, uh, anybody want a motion to adjourn? So moved. Second it over here. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, great. We are adjourned until, um, August something, but it's",
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      "text": "You'll have to just, uh, bear with not being able to see my photogenic, um, presence. So I'll, you know, people will suffer for that, I'm sure. Um, So folks have had the opportunity, I know, to see this presentation. I do intend to move through it actually pretty quickly. But, you know, we've allocated a relatively limited amount of time, which I, you know, I think is fine. I, I would— if you all have questions, I'd encourage you to— maybe I could stop here even initially and see if anybody has any kind of predicate questions they'd like to hit. Somebody, I think it was your chair, in fact, sent me 4 or 5 questions that I've kind kind of got loaded here and ready to go. But again, I'm happy to sort of work through kind of death by PowerPoint here, or alternatively hear questions, or maybe both. I guess what I'll do then is I'll get started, and then as questions come up, we'll go ahead and hit them, and I'll, I'll go ahead and deal with the questions I have sort of on the list here at the end. So maybe, you know, I don't have a clicker, so maybe somebody could help me whoever's got access to it to advance the slides. Does anybody have access to it? Excellent. Prior to Prop 39, you know, I— the world was different prior to Prop 39. Prior to Prop 39, in order to pass a school bond for facilities, you needed a two-thirds vote. Prop 39, at the very highest level, changed the voter threshold to bring the requirement down to 55%, you know, in order to pass a bond. You can see that prior to Prop 39, it was pretty hard to pass a bond, relatively speaking. It was about 54% from 1986 to 1999. So, so again, it wasn't an easy lift, and school facilities suffered. Next slide. So what Prop 39 did, as I was noting, was that it, it actually amended the California Constitution to lower the the threshold, and this is an option for school districts. School districts don't have to use the Prop 39 route, but when they do, it lowers the threshold constitutionally to 55% for approval of bonds that are used for school construction. And let's see here. There are certain limits that, you know, apply when you're dealing with these 55% Prop 39 bonds that speak to sort of the the amount of indebtedness or specific limits on the amount of indebtedness that you can incur under a Prop 39 bond goes to really sort of the total amount of assessed valuation of property within the district. I believe it's like 1.25% or, or something like that. And then, as you all are sitting here embodying it, the Prop 39 imposes certain oversight provisions that don't apply to other kinds of bonds. So next slide, please. So the effect on the ground has been, as I think you all who are close to it know, the effect on the ground has been to increase pretty dramatically the passage rate for school facility bonds. Took a look as I was putting this together a few weeks ago at EdSource, and I, you know, I ascertained that 71 out of the 101 school bond measures that were on the ballot in November of '22 passed. So that's again primarily a function of the, of the lower threshold that exists under the law. Next slide, please. So, you know, one of the— again, you know, speaking to sort of these special oversight measures that apply in Prop 39, what is required when a Prop 39 bond passes is the governing board of the school district establish and appoint members to an independent Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee. And it's supposed to happen within 60 days of the certification of the election results. And so that's why you all are sitting here. Next slide. And as, you know, your chair had kind of gone through, and as you all had sort of kind of gone through yourselves as you introduced yourselves, you need to have at least 7 members on a CBOC, and these members need to be drawn or supposed to be drawn pursuant to the Education Code from various constituencies. Business organizations. You can see senior citizens organization, bona fide taxpayers organization, parents or guardians of students. So I heard many of you sort of identifying with these various constituencies that you're required to have on your, on your board. Next slide, please.",
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      "text": "Not infrequently. I do, I do note that it's oftentimes hard to pull together volunteers who were willing to serve on CBOC. So it's not infrequent that the goal is to have more than 7. Many, many districts are fortunate to get 7. So it's— I'd say it ranges. I think aspirationally many districts are looking for more than 7, but it ranges. And again, it's— a lot of it is constrained by getting volunteers to do it. So here we go. The composition of the CBOC again. Terms of 2 years. They're staggered so that you don't have everybody going off at the same time. No more than 3 consecutive terms, and my hat's off to anybody who, who would serve that long. It's, it's actually a— I know, a lot of work. And that your term— the 2-year terms begin as of the date of appointment by the Board of Trustees. Next slide, please. So what is that CBOC? What are they supposed to do? Your chair actually did a really good job going through the, through the bylaws that you have there. Your bylaws actually track really nicely Prop 39 in the Education Code. But at the end of the day, I just— like your chair said, the purpose of the CBOC is to inform the public concerning the expenditures of bond revenue. This is really about creating public confidence, and that's, that's again part of the trade-off for that lower voting threshold, is to have this independent body of folks who are overseeing the, the work of the, of the district with respect to the bond program. So active review and report on the proper expenditure of taxpayers' money, advising the public as to whether the district is in compliance with the constitutional mandates with respect to this, the expenditure of the funds. So that's all a specific mandate. That's what the CBOC is required to do. Next slide. So I went through, and I kind of tried to pull out some of the active verbs that are used in the Education Code provision that I just had up there, and it's about informing, reviewing, reporting, advising. It's that oversight function, and I want to distinguish that from kind of the, the role of the district, which is ultimately to approve, to authorize, to endorse, deny, reject. Those are— that's the district's role in sort of, in sort of that. So One of the, one of the arts in this area is, is sort of ensuring robust oversight while respecting the lanes of sort of district and district staff. So, so I think this is always an important thing for us to kind of bear in mind, is making sure that we respect the CBOC's role in ensuring robust oversight while, you know, letting the district actually do the work itself. Next slide. So what requirements are we talking about specifically in terms of the, the Constitution? What does the Constitution say? Bonded indebtedness incurred by a school district. It's for the construction, reconstruction, rehabilitation, replacement of school facilities. And this is really to distinguish it from maintenance, ordinary kind of ongoing operations. Got to use the money for these things— construction, reconstruction, etc. Next slide. Yes, ma'am.",
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      "text": "And, and I do know that there are— of course, you all have reviewed them. That's part and parcel of your mandate. There's sort of an annual performance audit and an annual finance audit where I, I believe those kinds of things would be typically looked at. I think there would be sampling to ensure that the various things that are— the various things that end up, you know, charged to the bond program are appropriately being charged to the bond program. So next slide, please. So again, these are additional kind of requirements that the Constitution sets forth with respect to bond programs, or with, with respect to bond programs. And you can see again, constitutionally, you are only to use the you know, proceeds of the bonds for the specific purposes specified in Article 13A. You need a specific— you need to comply with a specific list of facilities projects that are articulated in the bond program. The— we were just referencing the fact that there's an obligation to conduct an annual independent performance audit and an annual independent finance— financial audit, and also a requirement that the district provide responses to findings and recommendations in the financial or performance audit. So those are the again, the requirements that come out of that Prop 39. Next slide.",
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      "text": "We, we, we provide, uh, counsel to the, uh, to the district, uh, by contract. Uh, we in fact contract with every, uh, school district in the county. Uh, we're— the county is a separate agency, of course, but, uh, but we do contract to, to provide general counsel legal support to the, uh, to the district. The district also has attorneys, I think, probably that they contract for, for other matters as well. But, but we do serve as a general counsel for the district. And let's see here. So one of the questions I had— I'm just going to go ahead and read it— is we're aware that of an AG opinion on charging some district personnel to bond funds. However, the opinion is quite specific that only act— the only activity that can be so expensed is, quote, administrative oversight work on construction projects, end quote. In the opinion, it's pretty clear this means project management to make sure bond funds are well spent, and, and is activity that might otherwise be contracted out by the district at a higher price. The question then is, how broad is it, quote, administrative oversight? This certainly could include a bond project manager employed by the district. How about an accountant who spends some time tracking invoices? How about a maintenance worker who does some work on a new building? Clarity would be helpful. So there is in fact an AG opinion on this. There are AG opinions on, on lots of things. The Attorney General of California, when asked, unlike sort of the courts, when asked, will provide the AG's opinion on various questions that are posed to the AG. And at some point back in 2004, a question was posed to the RCSD. May a school district use Proposition 39 bond funds, bond fund proceeds, to pay the salaries of district employees who perform administrative oversight work on construction projects authorized by voter-approved bond measures? The short answer is yes. And the, you know, I, I think that the, the real issue when you look at what can be charged and not is It really comes to— I'm going to look for some key language here that I think might be helpful. So what we're looking at is work that district staff is doing. It's drawing a distinction from a distinction from administrator and teacher salaries for general school operations. You can't charge that to a bond. So that's really kind of the distinction. Are you doing things that are— that you wouldn't have to do but for the bond project existing. So, you know, sort of ordinary sort of custodial cleaning up, for example, that can't be charged to the bond project. On the other hand, you know, costs that— construction, construction project costs such as material and equipment, architecture and engineering design work, construction worker salaries. As well as project administration costs, work that school districts would not be required to undertake or fund but for the existence of a construction project. Those things can be charged to the bond. I don't know if that's a helpful delineation, but that's, I think, kind of the key language coming out of that decision. Sort of that— or we didn't have the bond project, we wouldn't have to do this stuff. If it's stuff that we're doing because of the bond project, it's chargeable to the bond. I don't know if that helps in terms of a delineation, but that's roughly— I think that at the highest level, that's the best way I can think of to, to sort of crystallize a test.",
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      "text": "but first of all, first, just the scope of the audit, our responsibility as auditors versus the district's, you know, management's responsibility. The, the district is responsible, management The folks that run the bond program, they are responsible for ensuring that, you know, funds— the bonds are used for their intended purpose, that internal controls are, are working as, as expected, and in fact, you know, controls are actually established. So to the extent that there's a, a good audit or, or a bad audit, or, you know, non-compliance, or, you know, really for anything, it is management's responsibilities as well as, you know, they get, they get credit when there's you know, good things to happen. Our responsibility as, as auditors is really to just ask questions and then report back in the form of our audit report. We have a— there's a few reports in the, in the packet that we'll walk through. But again, it's just we are reporting back. It's just, here's what we found as a result of the audit. That goes to the CBOC, that goes to the Board of Education. So You actually have— there's, there's 2 audits in the packet. One is a set of financial statements. That's almost as if the bond program, the Measure T bond program, is its own little entity. It's a balance sheet. There's an income statement that is as of that, you know, June 30, 2022 fiscal year end. The actual numbers themselves may not be super relevant to you today, given, you know, we're now in like May of 2023, but it becomes the historical record of, you know, the results of operations for the year. And to the extent that there's no audit adjustments, then that does mean that the information that was previously presented to, to you folks is, you know, accurate. It's good information. But the scope of the audit with the— of the financial statements is really to, you know, answer the question: do these financial statements comply with the governmental accounting rules. You know, there's this GASB out there. If you're familiar with, you know, companies, you have FASB. There's the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, and it talks about how governments present financial statements. So our job there, make sure that those financial statements are complete and accurate and that they comply with all of those governmental accounting rules. And then on the performance audit And actually, before we get to that, the, the results, the, the opinion— there's a one-page, maybe actually two pages. There's a, there's a couple audit opinions within the financial report. Those have the firm letterhead, and then they kind of go on for a while. But it, it's what we call an unmodified or clean audit opinion. It really just says that those financial statements, they comply with those governmental accounting rules. So That's really the best opinion that you can have. There's another opinion kind of towards the back, in accordance with government auditing standards, which says that when you do an audit you don't test the controls, but you ask questions, and to the extent that what's called internal control deficiencies, if those are identified, those are required to be reported out, whereas, you know, in a non-government audit, such as, you know, of a random commercial company, you may have internal control deficiencies that are identified. Those may be discussed with management, and then that's the end of it. They don't go anywhere after that. But with governments, those are required to be reported as audit findings. But, you know, there were none that are reported, so that's also a clean opinion. But just to be clear, the, the scope of testing of controls is not testing controls to identify deficiencies. It's if deficiencies are identified as a result of us doing the audit, those are required to be reported out. And there's a important distinction there. So then, for the performance audit, it's probably what's more, more relevant or more interest to this group. The scope of the performance audit, and on a high level, it's not, not the accounting records, but it's taking what went through the accounting records, what expenditures were charged to the bond program for the year, and then asking the question is, were these things— are these allowable for for the bond program. So specifically, the scope of the performance audit is to ensure, one, that you have listed projects. Are the projects that are charged to the bond program during the year— are those, you know, are those listed projects the kind of towards the back of the— or within, I guess, the body of the Measure T ballot text? It has a lot of language about, you know, construction, renovation, you know, whatever. And then it also lists a number of, of school sites, and has some, some specific projects within there. Question 1 is, you know, are these listed projects? And then 2, are these compatible with, with Proposition 39, which really is kind of similar? But are these construction projects? Are they, are they things that would be allowable for them for the bond program?",
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      "text": "and then make sure I don't miss anything here. And then the other thing that we look at, which I know there are— there's questions about this, too.",
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      "text": "there's, there's salaries that are charged to the bond program, and the scope of the audit is not to look at any and all salaries, but it's to say, well, are these— actually, that last speaker was probably way better at explaining this because it's a legal question more than an accounting question. But that Attorney General opinion— are the salaries that are charged to to the bond program compatible, allowable with, you know, I guess, as per that Attorney General opinion. The scope of the performance audit is something that's set by the state. So the state of California publishes this audit guide every year for all school districts with a lot of things in it. There's an appendix for these Prop 39 construction bond audits, and certainly you can add anything and everything. Anything can be audited, just pay, pay for the cost of it. But you can never go below those, those requirements, which is really what I kind of just laid out, which is, are these compatible projects per Prop 39? Are they, are they compatible with a specific Measure T in this case? And then are salaries compatible with that attorney general opinion? And I'll talk more about that in a, in a minute. But really, the, the conclusion From all of that, you kind of towards the bottom of the performance report, kind of 3 bullet points. One, the expenditures that we sampled in the audit, and the, and the audit works on a sample basis. You don't look at anything and everything. You cannot— it's not feasible to look at 100%. But you pick a sample. It's intended to be representative, and it— the sample that we looked at, there were no exceptions. And so the expenditures Therefore, expenditures charged to those bond programs would— were all allowable per Proposition 39. The salaries that ran through the bond program, at least the ones that— ones that we sampled, those are all consistent with the Attorney General opinion. And so there's really— there's no— there were no deviations, no audit findings as a result of applying those procedures. So kind of the one question— the question that was sent to me Talk more about salaries for, for a second. Specifically, I guess, that Attorney General opinion covers— it says that school districts can charge salaries to the bond programs to the extent that they're performing administrative oversight. So like I said, the last speaker is an actual attorney, and it's really a legal question more than anything else. But the way that we would look at this in the audit— one, we're not going to question We will just— we will take the Attorney General opinion to be correct, because that's what the district has said. Anything that's going to be charged to the bond program, it does need to run through a process. So it's not that one person can say, all right, this is going to be, you know, charged to the bond program, program, and, and therefore it happens. There's a series of internal controls which have to happen, and approvals and decisions that have to happen. Have to be made by the district before an expense can be charged to the bond program. So we're going to, we're going to take it that Attorney General opinion, and that's what the district is using, and all of the other school districts in California too. So there's obvious kind of the way that it was that last speaker said, you know, those salary expenditures would go away at the conclusion of the specific bond program. And to the extent that someone who's, say, doing accounting, or you're charging a portion of a CBO salary to the bond program, well, clearly that work that is being allocated, that work would go away at the conclusion of the bond program. So to the extent that that's actually what we see in the accounting records, we would look at that and say, okay, that, that makes sense. Those would not be called out as, as audit findings. And then the Attorney General opinion talks about folks doing administrative oversight. So that is, you know, accounting. That is, you know, people who are I guess we'll say administrative, but it really doesn't talk about what's not within the scope of that are folks who are doing— here, what did I write here? My notes, uh, actually hard to find them as I talk. But it doesn't really talk about folks that are doing, you know, electrical work or landscaping work, or, you know, kind of what we'd say not as construction. Obviously the district doesn't employ construction contractors, but people that are doing, you know, digging in the ground And there are other sections of Ed Code and, and public contracting code that do talk about, for these very small projects, things that are under— I thought the threshold— I have it written down. Yeah, I think the threshold is $60,000 for these kind of tiny projects, and that would be someone— and these all have to be in directly connected to have a direct nexus to an ongoing bond project, and then the conclusion of the bond project. These things go away. The project is completed, turned over to the district, and it begins use. I think I heard an example of, you know, watering, watering plants, and from the, from the prior speaker. So if that was as a result of just closing out the bond project, let's say we use district maintenance staff, it's a, you know, one-time, non-recurring. We would look at in the audit, look at timesheets, we'll look at whatever support was used by the district. To charge them to the bond program and make sure that we can really agree that, okay, this is a non-recurring one-time— it's the result of, direct result of the bond project. You know, once the project is turned over, students are in the building, it's being used, obviously then, you know, we would not expect to see that watering of plants or landscaping or, you know, cleaning of, of buildings. We would not expect to see that. And to the extent that those remain in the bond program, then those would be called out as audit findings because then you're crossing over from, you know, non-recurring projects, not non-recurring, you know, setting up that capital asset versus running a school district. And those ongoing maintenance costs are all things that would go to the general fund or, you know, wherever would be appropriate for those. So I don't know if I help them on that one or not, but that, that's kind of that, that, that is kind of the, the executive summary of the, the results of the audit, the scope of, of the audit. So with that, I'll turn it over to the group, and to the extent that there's any questions I can try and elaborate further, I'm happy to try.",
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      "text": "Okay. And then the next version of this would cover April 1st through Okay, perfect. Through June, June 30th, and we meet again in August, I think. So we'll always be a little bit behind because it's on the quarterly schedule. Okay, um, so with that in mind, there are, um, what, 400 roughly, uh, bond transactions in the last period, with a largest of Nearly $500,000 down to the smallest being, um, $7.50. So any discussion or questions on this list of expenditures?",
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      "text": "Uh, well, our team is in place so that things are not just passed through. So when change or when a potential change order is generated by a contractor It's our, you know, our team's job to study the plans. You know, if a contractor says this work was not shown on the plans, the architect missed this, it's our job to actually study the plans and confirm that, you know, that, that work is not shown on the plans and really is additional work that the contractors are owed money for. So contractors there and That's where we get into our negotiations with them. If something is in a gray area, you know, they're, you know, you get to negotiation on, you know, what's fair and acceptable. Some are refused, some are clearly, you know, clearly not shown on a plan set, and then some, you know, one sheet shows something, one sheet has another note that's contrary. And you have to enter into negotiations, basically.",
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      "text": "Otra preocupación que tenemos es que en los salones que son destinados para educación especial, en los corredores están ocupados por las sillas de ruedas, que sabemos que son grandes o voluminosas y ocupan ese espacio para, pues están en el paso, no. Entonces quizás sí algunos fondos se pudieran destinar a edificios, no sé, de mejor acceso para los niños de educación especial que están en Hoover. No sé, no sé si correspondan estos comentarios aquí, ¿verdad? Pero bueno, son las preocupaciones que, que como padres hemos, este, o como mamá he escuchado de de otros, de otros padres que he visto en las escuelas, porque mi hija tiene 4 años en esa escuela, la conozco muy bien. Y pues también agradezco la oportunidad que me dan de compartir estas ideas, porque pues de la misma manera quisiera aprender cómo más padres pueden involucrarse y Another concern is in regards to special ed classrooms.",
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      "text": "Got it. Okay. I forgot to mention at the outset, but just so everybody recalls this, that the board expanded the scope— passed a resolution to expand the scope of the Measure T CBOC to include Measure S. I think everyone is aware of that. There's going to be— there is one CBOC. The scope is to cover both bonds, and we've actually removed— correct me if I'm wrong, Cameron— any reference to any specific bond from the bylaws. So this is the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee for any bond that would fall under the purview of such oversight. So anybody have any commentary on that, or comfortable with that moving forward?",
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