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  "text": "Alright, welcome everyone to the— what is today? February 2nd, 2023 meeting of this Measure T Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee. Olivia, do you want to do a roll call of the committee members? First item of business. What's that? Jennifer Givens. Present. Brooke Townsend. Present. Present. Present. Carl Metz? Present. Uh, Dr. Rodriguez Luna— And Chief Policy High present. Thank you. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. So we have a quorum established. Thank you to all the members for coming tonight. We're going to move into item 2 of the agenda, which is the approval of this agenda for tonight's meeting. Motion for that? Second. Second. Second. Okay. All in favor of approving tonight's agenda, please say aye. Aye. Okay, and we don't have anybody remote on the committee, so we don't have to do a roll call. Any nays or abstentions? None. Okay, great. Uh, agenda for tonight is approved in all of its length and complexity, so let's work our way through. Um, the— we're in Item 3 on the agenda now, which is the public comment period. So if anyone from the public would like to address the committee, now is a great time to do so. Please come up to the podium, grab a microphone, and the right one. So work— okay, thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Chris Robell, Redwood City resident, and I wanted to talk, and I guess I have opportunity to speak at the different agenda items. But so this is just an overarching comment. I'm hoping that you would agree on 3 goals for the CBOC. One is, I think it's super important that the, the commit— that the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee is self-governing, so that you guys control your own destiny. You do everything on your own, and you're truly independent, untethered from the district, untethered from the district's advisors like DWK. So you prepare the agendas, you set the agendas, which is not what's in the bylaw right now. The one you're reviewing later says that the district will prepare it. So you set the agenda, you prepare it, you decide how many members are on the CBOC. There's nothing in the statute that says the district or the, the trustees decide. You guys decide how many members you want on the CBOC. You decide what this— the website looks like. You decide what reports you want the district to provide to you so you can do diligent oversight of expenditures. And, um, and most importantly, you have your own counsel, I think, which was underscored by a few people including me last time. Um, and there's— which gets to the second point. So that's one goal, ensuring self-governance. The second goal, ensuring that the the oversight is real, real and meaningful, so that the CBOC can fulfill its mission in determining if expenditures are in compliance with California Constitution. So in order to do that, I think it's all the more reason why it's important to have independent counsel, because you're going to be seeking counsel as to whether or not something is a valid Prop 39 expense, and there are differing opinions. And I, I vociferously disagree with Miss Janet Mueller last time, and I've spoken with other people that also— many people that vociferously disagree, including attorneys. For every case there's a— when there's a defendant and a plaintiff, there's 2 attorneys, and they disagree, right? So of course the district's attorney represents the district. You guys don't represent the district. You represent me and yourselves, the taxpayers. So I think it's very important to look at what is and is not a Prop 39 expenditure. I do not, and, and we'll get into that in a little bit. But I think when we get into the bylaws. But equipment and furnishings only if it's part of a school facility, not by itself. Deferred maintenance— there's nothing in the California Constitution that says deferred maintenance works as a— that's an operating expense. And anyway, so that's the second point, is making sure there's real meaningful oversight, and that ties to the independent bond counsel. And then the third one, which is the responsibility outlined in the code, is that there's— that information is shared with the public and that the public's engaged. That's who ultimately you, you're representing, right? So DWK represents the district, you guys represent the taxpayers. And so making sure that that website has meaningful information— and there actually is a pretty good report, I think it needs some work, but the— that's presumably the district prepared about expenditures— is a long list. And I think that's an example of something with some modifications that should go on, on your website. So anyway, making sure that the public can— not in a PDF format, but an Excel database so it can be filtered and parsed. But anyway, so those are the 3 things: self-governance, making sure there's real oversight, and making sure that the public is engaged and all the information is shared with them. And we'll talk more later about that. Thank you. Thank you. I don't see anyone else from the public, but if someone's hiding, now would be a good time to step up. Are we able to take any public comment online, or do they need to be in person? The only people online that are here are in this room as well. Okay, so there is no one else online. Okay, great. Well, with that, we'll close the public comment section of the agenda and move into Section 4. This is the action items portion of the agenda. So this is where We'll need to take votes on each of these items. So to start out, we've got item 4.1, and the item here is to rescind all the actions taken at the October 27th, 2002 special meeting, and that's to address some allegations of Brown Act violations that happened at that meeting. So do we have a motion on 4.1, please? So second. I'll second it. Thank you. Okay, so we're voting on rescinding all actions taken on this motion. So all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Was that 2 ayes? Okay. Nays? One. Extension. Abstention. Abstention. 3 abstentions. So 4 abstentions. So let's see, we have— I think we had 7, right? One, two. So I think we had 2, uh, sorry. 2 in favor. Um, who was against? I'm sorry, Jit Paul, 1, and then 4 abstentions. That totals 7. Okay, so, um, the motion fails on 4-1. Uh, let's move then to 4-2. This is to authorize the October 22nd electronic meeting of the CBOC and approve adjournment. So we're requested here to reapprove the authorization of the October 27th regular meeting to be held electronically, as it was at the time. So do we have a motion on 4.2? Did Paul— moved? Second? Thank you. All in favor of this motion, aye. Aye. Any nays? Any abstentions? One abstention. Okay, so I think that was 601. All right, moving on to 43. So we have meeting minutes from the special meeting, which was the meeting to authorize, if I recall correctly. Let me just look here to make sure we're talking about the right thing here. Yeah, so the special meeting on October 22nd. So And do we have a motion to approve the minutes from the special meeting on October 27th? Move. Thanks, Carl. Any second? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Abstentions? Okay, so that is passed. Okay, now we are— that was all about the special meeting. So now we're moving into the regular meeting that happened on October 27th. We're requested to rescind and redo the action items taken at the October 27th regular meeting, and you'll recall that was where we elected the chair and the vice chair, and we approved the minutes of the previous meeting, which had happened in April. So do we have a motion to rescind those actions from October 27th? No motion. Any discussion? Okay, no motion. So nothing to vote on on 4.4. That's going to take us to 4.5, which is redoing— and 4.6, which is redoing the election from October. Uh, do we have a motion to— or do we have nominations for the chair under 4.5? Can I ask a question, please? Yes. So are 4.5 through 4.10 underneath 4.4, or— no, they're separate actions. It's not— 4.4 is not rescinded to the advice. I'm not aware of any rule we can't do things quite— yeah, I mean, we're in a gray area because we haven't, we haven't voted to— I, I'm just wondering if we should have more discussion about 4.4 since it seems to— we can't— I'm just wondering if we do 4.5 and 4.6, are we violating something? I'm going to do this again. Like, yeah, go ahead, Rick. So, so the intent of this was to, uh, address the allegation, uh, and in coordination with a letter that was sent to the district attorney and our subsequent response to that. And as part of that letter, we said we would put on the agenda, uh, items to rescind the actions taken, uh, because there was question about, uh, the, the proper usage, uh, or the proper, uh, handling of the meeting. And as part of that, we said we would put that item on, and then also put the items on to the action items from that meeting, which were the election of a chair, vice chair, and the approval of the committee minutes from last spring. So that was a one of the factors that we put in the response letter to San Mateo District Attorney. So we're, we're just responding to a concern. We're not necessarily saying the concern was valid or weak, right? We're just going through and we're making sure that everything is done with forum, a properly noticed meeting, uh, and taking the actions over again. And that was the whole point of the, uh, item for— to rescind the actions and then to do them in accordance with, uh, everything else, with full quorum, with everyone in person, uh, and making Essentially, it could be the same determination, and that was in October, but formally doing it at tonight's meeting, which also provides the opportunity for public comment and a proper notice reading if anyone felt they wasn't— do those actions. That is correct. But then should we go back to Section 4.1 if we, if we start back from 4.4, 4.5? Because then we'll basically we said that we not approved 4-1, we're sending out— and I'm going to turn forward. I, I mean, I'd love to hear from council. I'm not aware of any rule that says we can't vote on chair twice in a year, right? Chairs can change, like it could be calendared from one meeting to the next. So without taking a position on whether anything we did previously I'm not aware of anything saying we can't do it again, and if it were challenged, then you have both. So I think your question, Jitpal, was, do we need to go back to 4.1 and 4.2, which we did not approve? Correct, to go back to— And those were about the special meeting, which was called to basically authorize the, the regular meeting to be done virtually or to have virtual attendance. So, you know, we could— I, I feel we could move on, just leave 4.1 and 4.2 behind. The real impact here is, do we have a chairperson and a vice chair? And if so, if we vote yes, if we go back to 4.4 and we approve that, then we're basically need to go through 4.5 and, and 6 and 7. Again, and I don't frankly see any downside to your point of just doing it again and putting it to bed. Is that okay? Any objections or further discussion on that? So why don't we go back to 4.4 then on the agenda? Rescind all actions taken at October 27th. Does someone have a motion here so that we'll vote again on 4.4? I move that we rescind all actions taken at the October 27th regular meeting. Okay, we have a motion. Is there a second? Okay, so we have a second. So we're going to vote on 4.4. Any discussion before we vote on 4.4? Everyone clear on what we're voting on, or any questions? I guess just to clarify, we will still be going over, uh, 4.5. Then we'll need to do 4.5, 4.6, and 4.7, which were the three things that we did at that meeting, regardless of outcome of the— well, good, good question, but I think we're leaning towards yes. Choose to do that. I don't, I don't know. Okay, just clarify. Good clarifying. Okay, so we're gonna vote on 4-4. We have a motion to rescind the 27th, October 27th meeting. All in favor say aye. Aye. I think I— did I hear 3? Anyone else? Okay. Against? Nay. 1. Abstain? 2, 3. Okay, 3 yes, 1 against, 3 abstaining. Uh, how many do we need to say to pass? Parliamentarian? I haven't been appointed as that. Well, but we have 7 of us, so that's not a majority. Yeah. All actions except the ones called out in the bylaws requiring more than a majority are passed by majority. Doesn't pass. Doesn't pass. Okay, we're moving on to 4.5 then. Election of chair. So we're redoing this from October 27th. Any nominations for a chair for the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee? Nominee, Carol Landers. I was afraid you were gonna do that. Okay, any other nominations? Alright. So we have a motion to elect me as your chair. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Abstain? Okay, passed. I'm pleased to have been voted your chairperson again. Thank you for your vote of confidence. Vice chair, 4.6 on the agenda. Do we have a nomination for vice chair? Okay, Jen is nominated. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. Any discussion? All right, so let's vote on Jen for vice chair. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? And any abstain? Okay, we welcome back as vice chair Alright, we're gonna look at again at the meeting minutes from the April 21st meeting. I think you should have that in front of you. We reviewed it in the October meeting. But is there a motion to approve the April meeting minutes? Second. Second. Great. Any discussion on the April 2022 minutes. Okay, let's vote on the motion to approve. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Abstain? Great. Oh, one abstention. I'm sorry, 601. Got it. Thank you. Uh, okay, now we have minutes from the October 27th meeting. Uh, we did not rescind the actions taken at the meeting, and we did have the meeting, and we have minutes of the meeting. So, uh, the action here is to approve the minutes. Do we have a motion to approve the October 27th minutes? So moved. Second. Second. Thank you. Any discussion, uh, questions on the minutes from October meeting? All right, hearing none, we'll move to vote on the motion. All in favor, aye. Any against? Any abstaining? Okay, 7-0-0. All right, um, then we have the 2020-2021 annual report. Did we— was this something we voted on in October? Can't— no. So this is a new, um, item. All right, so this report, which was prepared by the committee and, uh, Michael Bolender, who was the chair at the time, um, as of June 30th, 2021, and it covers the 2020 2021 fiscal year. So do we have a motion for approval of the 2020-2021 annual report? We have a motion. Second. Second. Thank you. Um, any discussion on the report? I have a question as to the approval. Um, our bylaws state that we approve as to substance the annual reports versus, you know, minutes of a prior meeting where you don't have to be present, but in your role as a member, you approve. I, I'd love to understand what that means, approve as to substance, since we weren't in the oversight committee at the time. What's that? I'm sorry, they had home tours of the schools. Um, possibly. Yeah, we did a site with them. Site— yes. Do you, um, do you have the section of the bylaws handy, um, just to refresh everyone on what it says? Yeah. sorry, the process. Are we going to have an opportunity to speak? It says on the agenda that public— Yes, I'll— we'll take some public comment on this in just a minute if you have some. Yeah. Um, so 6.0 on committee reports, uh, talks about it being the committee's legal charge to actively review and report on the expenditure of taxpayer money, and then says, um, all such reports shall be duly approved as to substance by an affirmative vote of not less than two-thirds of the committee. I, I just don't know what that means, approved as to substance. Are we making representation as that everything in there is entirely accurate as written, or are we approving as a Bond Oversight Committee as a procedural vote for, for a, a document drafted by a predecessor committee? I would, I would maybe defer to you because you're the one who issues the report, but might change the wording of the motion to note that we're only doing it on a procedural ground. Otherwise, I personally will abstain. Yeah, because actually the report is being presented by Michael, really. Yes, I mean, he wrote it. Yeah, names are there. So I approved as the substance is, is part, part standard to understand what we're, what we're doing here. Other discussion, uh, thoughts or comments from the committee? Well, I, I would argue that the committee is a non-technical body, so we receive our technical guidance from the district. So I think this is where, you know, the council needs to advise us as to what the definition of the sub— of as to substance means within the bylaws, since none of us wrote these bylaws. Um, can the, the district council actually provide us that clarification? We can get that clarification. Okay. Um, anything else on this topic from the committee? Chris, you wanted to say something on this topic? Feel free. Sure, this is specific to the report from 2020, from 2020-2022. Yeah, and I don't think, you know, you do it with that as you like, but this pertains to saying whether it was a clean audit and the, the CBOC report, right? That's what this was about, I believe. Well, okay, specific to the, the, the annual report from— so there were a lot of expenses, and I don't— again, independent of this particular— I mean, I read that detailed report of all the expenditures pictures, and, um, there were a lot of things that just I would ask about. And I don't know, again, I guess to your point, you didn't review these, you weren't there, but, um, things like $46,000 paid to the Bay Area News Group for advertising— that's not a construction of a facility. Um, a lot of money for just from district personnel for moving, for tree watering, for EV charging, um, and a lot, you know, Terminix expense, termite inspections, $132 a month for water charges. These are all operating expenses. I don't know, I don't know, but I, I would have a lot of questions. And if I, if I weren't the wrong— if I weren't on that CBOC, I would be uncomfortable approving that. So those are— that's just my two cents on that. With respect to the previous topic of Prop 39, I didn't know if we're— when we were going to do that one, but, um, I, I just wanted to say, um, for the record, I disagreed with what was in Section 5.1.3 of the October 27th minutes when, um, Janet Mueller said the authorized propositions include the furnishing and equipping of school facilities. That's not what the California Constitution says. It actually says what's in your bylaws, right? So when you— it says that it covers the construction, reconstruction, rehabilitation, and replacement of school facilities, comma, including the furnishing and equipment of school facilities, comma, or the acquisition of lease or real property or school facilities. So the equipping and furnishing is tied to the CRRR, the construction, rehabilitation, and replacement of school facilities, not by itself. So I don't think you can go in and, you know, equip things with. Uh, so anyway, that's one issue. Um, deferred— bond funds cannot be used for, um, uh, deferred maintenance projects. There's nothing— that's an operating expense. There's nothing— that's like, uh, not maintaining my car and then doing an oil change and then using bond money for that. That's a maintenance expense. If you deferred it, it's an operating expense. And I've talked to, uh, several people about that, including accountants and attorney. Um, so anyway, there's, there's just some things, and I think this underscores the importance of having your own counsel that is not representing the district. Interests. Thank you. Thank you. Is it possible to ask a clarifying question from public comment, please? Okay, um, I just want to make sure I understand your comment on 5.1.3. It is not that the minutes inaccurately reflect what was stated at the meeting, it's just that you disagree with the position of council. Oh, thank you. Yes, no, what she— I believe she did— yes, the minutes of what she said are correct. You're right, that's actually correct. But I, I Missed a, a point, I believe. I think it might have been you. Are you Caroline? Yes. Sorry. Okay, or one of you that's an attorney. I remember somebody said to Ms. Mueller, please be careful and read the Constitution and don't mix your ands and ors and buts. That was a comment which I thought was exactly right, because she said it's true, it says furnishing equipment of school facilities, but that's in the sentence tied to construction rehabilitation. And so she had it as the way she made it sound like is in isolation you can do that. You can't put in you know, whiteboards in classrooms or something that's going to be gone. And I, it would be silly for me to finance this with a 40-year bond, right? It's going to be obsolete in 2 years, right? It's, it's a— it's not a long-life asset. And you made that— I think you made that comment. So I just wanted to clarify that there was a dispute with the minutes. Okay, thank you. Um, so we're on, uh, 4.9, which is the annual report And Cameron, your thoughts on whether do we vote on the motion? Do we— essentially what we've said is we want council's take on what we're actually doing here in improving this. Do we not have council present? We don't. So my recommendation would be to table it until we have that confidence. But if, if the remainder of the committee feels comfortable voting, proceed. I, I would be in a state— question— this, this report is documenting what has been done, not proposed, correct? Right. And this is what was done in that fiscal year. We're voting on the approval of a record of what was already done. We're not voting on whether it was done correctly or not. I think that's the nuance here that we're all trying to understand, which is what are we actually approving? Because none of us wrote this or even on the committee when it was written, or when the the activity happened. Um, I, I can clarify my comment if it's helpful, which is the, the paragraph on page 2 that starts in summary near the bottom. In summary, the CBOC wishes to report that to the best of its knowledge, the district expended Measure T funds only for the specific purposes and in accordance with— and you know, all of that. Yes. I don't know what it means to approve that as to substance. Is— do— are we adopting that statement as a statement of the current CBOC, or are we approving the legacy document? I'd like to understand that. Fair request. So I could speak to at least a portion of the report in that I noticed that the, the performance audit is attached here. Just like when the performance audit goes to the board, it is accepted by the board. It is not the board approving it, because no one on the board is typically a CPA that is writing the audit. So I would take it in that same vein to say that this committee is accepting the work that has been presented and the work of the auditor, and not of the previous committee. Fair point. Any thoughts on that? I mean, I, I agree. Um, we are not too— we are not technical. We are a committee of managers in the, in the eyes of the board. We accept what's in the actual report, and we have to actually trust that the professionals who have put this report together mainly the auditors and the program managers have done it in compliance with the law. So I would say we are not the approvers of the content. We are the approvers of the, the report itself, not the validity of the content. One might ask then, well, what is the— what are we doing? What is the purpose of the committee then if it's simply to pass along someone else's work to the Board of Trustees? What is our role in the process? Well, I think we have to rely on the professionals who put this— the bond program together to actually explain to us, the public, what— why it is valid, or why a project is valid, why it's not valid. And it's not— we are not the approvers of that. We are an oversight committee for— um, I believe the, the wording is actually to ensure we're not approving anything. Again, we're a non-technical body. We have to rely upon the technical guidance from the district and their consultants. So are you comfortable with this? The in summary that Cameron read on page 2 there says, to the best of its knowledge, it being this committee, right, the district expended Measure T bond funds in accordance blah blah blah. That, that's what we're saying because we are essentially the proxy now for the, the authors of this report. I'm not that concerned about approving these. Perhaps I should be, but I would say that this has been through several layers of reviews and audits. Um, I, I don't think— I think it's a complete report that accurately depicts what happened from 2020 to 2021, and there's no grounds to say that it does not. Other thoughts or discussion on the topic? Alright. Well, my suggestion is that we, if someone will move to approve the report, we'll vote on it, and if it does not pass, then we can take the action that Cameron requested, which is to get further clarification, which may then result in more members of the committee voting in favor of approval. So do we have a motion to approve this report as is? So moved. Second. I second. All right, all in favor of approving, uh, the 2020-21 report that we're looking at here, say aye. Aye. I think that was 3, uh, opposed and abstain. 1, 2, 3. Did I miss someone, or was 4? Wait, were there 4 in favor? I'm sorry, just whoever was in favor, just raise your hand so we're clear. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay, so we have 4— was it 4-0-3 then? I think so. The motion passes. Motion failed. Oh, wait, I thought— Proposition 39 requires this to be approved by the facilities, construction, and finance staff. Who made you parliamentarian? No, I'm just kidding. Thank you. So for two-thirds, we need 5. Okay, so the motion fails. The report is not approved. Um, so district— Rick, if you could take an action to get clarification from council on what exactly the committee is approving, and we'll bring it on the agenda for the next meeting. Okay, moving on to 4.10. We have a proposal here for the meeting dates for the rest of the year. We're obligated to meet 4 times a year. This is the first time, and we're proposing May 11th, August 3rd, and November 2nd. So let's start with a motion to approve this schedule of regular meetings. Second. Second. All right, open for discussion on, uh, the proposal. Okay, public comment. The August 3rd meeting, probably find it's going to be very difficult for someone. I'm out of town. Yeah, it's going to be hard. Um, prefer it to start back the school district during school. So you're suggesting move to after school starts, which— what's the, uh, does anyone have the school start date handy? If we're still on the board, that's great. Yeah, question, um, opportunity to be remote. That's your vote now, right? What if someone is isolated, you know, like, are there any exceptions to that? They can't just be here. So with our board members, it is— they are able to miss 2 meetings. So I don't know if that is also the case with this committee. I would check with county council to find that out. Our board members can miss 2 meetings, and, um, but we still have to have a quorum. But we are not— even if you're ill, do it remotely. They cannot participate remotely after they've done 2 meetings. So I think we've got a couple things here. So I— yeah, our bylaws also mention 2 consecutive meetings being missed, um, as a reason to boot someone off the committee. Um, and it sounds like it's a definitive no on joining remotely at this point in time. Yes, as a— so we have room to have a few people out, but obviously we'd like to accommodate as many people as possible. Um, what's the back-to-school date? Uh, do you have it handy, anyone? August something, I guess, right? Yeah. So if we moved it to keeping it in August, we could still do the 24th or the 31st, which are both after school starts. Any discussion on those? The 31st, is that probably Labor Day? Uh, it's a Thursday. It's the Thursday before the Labor Day weekend, so we could shoot for the 21st. Is there a board, uh, trustees meeting? Um, On the 21st? No, they're not on Thursdays, I guess. 24th. 24th is the Thursday. 24th. Oh, sorry, I moved to September accidentally. Uh, 24th, all clear on the district calendar? Yes. Okay, so the— we would amend August 3rd to August 24th. Um, and Any other discussion on the calendar? All right, so we have a motion to approve the calendar, which we just amended, uh, which I think is fine. Uh, so all in favor of the calendar as amended? Aye. Any opposed? Abstain? 7-0-0. Okay, we have approved that. Uh, please everyone put it in your calendars. May 11th, August 24th, November 2nd. All right, so we have completed Section 4 of the agenda, which is all of the action required items for this evening's meeting. We're going to move into Section 5, which is the informational topics, um, some of which were requested at the previous meeting, um, to be added. So We will start with 5.1, um, which is review the progress report on bond construction and modernization projects. Um, and who's gonna— is this Erica? Are you leading this, or— oh, Will. Okay. This group. We're still working on final punch list and closeout DSA certification for the three, like I said, three large projects our field is around. Thank you, Will. Any questions or discussion? Substantial completion? Uh, substantial completion has already been stamped at all three types, so we're just cleaning up the final financial audit and working towards DSA certification. Working through the— um, priority plans. And do you have an estimate on DSA certification, Will? Dates? Um, if you were to hazard your best guess this evening, we are working to get them all of the paperwork that they need to proceed with issuing us a final invoice. Uh, normally once we get them that paperwork, they reserve like 1 to 2 months, uh, just based on their bandwidth to get, get us that. Once we get them the final payment, you know, it's another month. It could be, could be near the beginning of summer before we actually get the certification. And when, when do you foresee the, the reserves being released on these? And maybe that's in another agenda topic, but— Great question. So the program contingency RCSD. Um, we actually had a meeting this morning and we're proceeding with, uh, scrubbing the budget and planning to give a budget update presentation to the stakeholders early March, and ideally would be bringing, um, the amount of money that we would be be comfortable, uh, committing to future potential projects to the board in March or April if everything goes well for discussion and the prioritization. Is anything with the leasing certification held up with Measure 7 or, or any other— Not right now, yeah. Are there additional projects, Will, that are being, uh, authorized now by the board for remaining funds that aren't shown on this? I mean, this is just a list of the sites, right? Um, so there have been a couple, a couple small items at different sites that have gone to the board, uh, for action. I would need to, you know, I would need to bring that back to the, to the— Um, I guess my follow-on question is, are there— are you expecting new projects or small projects to be approved between now and this March-April timeframe you mentioned when you kind of have the full budget back to the board for spend? No, and I think that's what Will was referring to, is the work that, that he— his team, the facilities team, is doing right now is going through, uh, what it'll take to close out the projects that we have here, uh, the punch list items, uh, looking at, uh, the budget, uh, what's left in, uh, we'll call it the reserve at this point, uh, bringing that to, uh, internal committee, uh, to address, uh, in early March, uh, and then from that committee with recommendations to be brought to the board for additional projects. So at this point there won't be additional projects going to the board until that process happens internally. So the March-April timeframe. Okay, and just one more clarifying question than anyone else. Um, are there projects that are running now that the board has approved that aren't— that don't appear on this list? Are there projects? Well, they're, they're all in Uh, there's some small projects that the board, that the board has approved. Um, I would, I would need to, you know, go through the board agenda and pull, you know, the bond that are associated with these projects. Okay, any other questions or comment on this topic? Sounds like there's just a few items, like type of efficiencies are there, general conditions that are outstanding, you know, the small things that we're getting completed right now, like full-time facilities staff and like building. Um, you're talking like part of the program, construction management and stuff? Yeah. So we have, uh, We have myself, uh, and then we have a couple contracts managers in my office that are helping handle all the final paperwork. And we have one full-time construction manager that's jumping between, uh, the different sites. Then we have, um, you know, one part-time construction manager that's supporting, uh, as needed. So we're running pretty lean. Compared to, you know, a couple years ago when everything was on full steam. Yeah. And so when I, uh, when I— we talk— when you ask a question about small projects being approved by the board, I mean, the items, uh, are supporting the larger projects, things like additional, you know, furniture and, you know, things like that that have gone to the board. Um, I would need to go back and you know, get a list of exactly what's been approved, but it's all supporting the modernization of larger projects. No, we— I don't think any new, new full projects have been approved. Got it. I'm just familiar with one, for example, the, uh, just because I've been working in the McKinley Auditorium, you know, the bond paid to put the screen and projector in there, correct? Yes, that was. And that was— so that must have gone to the board, been approved, but was never on the list, the original list. It was an add-on item, presumably. Yes, any, anything like that would go to the board for after— What about leaks from old building? I heard there's a report on how that's being handled. Yes, uh, we are addressing leaks at John Gill, Garfield, and Path as we speak, uh, since some leaks in John Gill classrooms. Um, we have a contractor that just successfully, um, identified the leaks on the roof at John Gill and put a plan in action. I think they're gonna— I think they're— I think I just actually read an email that they're going to be on site Monday a week or two once they get materials. Um, we had leaks in a storage room at Garfield. Uh, Casey was just on site, ground down and popped. And, uh, I believe we are expecting to get rain tomorrow, um, which was going to feed the water test. So we'll see tomorrow how that goes. Um, and then tap, uh, just actually had Casey commit to being at the site next week, I believe, to address almost an identical issue, um, leak in the storage room. They're going to grind it down, caulk it, and see if that'll fix it. That's been an elevator for many, right? Uh, yes, yeah, well, not just that, um, we, we had a— we had issues with elevator at a carport as well. And I don't know if it's necessary at both. The permit got delayed, but it was more, you know, material. Okay, those are closed now. Yes, staff, staff issues were resolved. I believe that we've received permits at all the sites. Don't feel like our field staff at 3 sites have noticed. Any other questions or comments on 5.1? I guess I do have one question. So with kind of the, the, this— not the hard on the small project, but like the, the small contingency buy-down projects that can sometimes get added, um, how do those get vetted for compliance with the, the bond measure? They go through the district stakeholder team and then to the board for discussion. So there, there's a group of people who are vetting it prior to even going to the board to ensure that it's actually within the, the letter and the spirit of the bond. Uh, yes, yes, on— we just met this morning. Will, would it be possible to get a list of the— these add-on projects, for lack of a better term, or Rick, that have been approved by the board. Yeah, that are all basically using the extra money, right, till— to its completion. Yeah, absolutely. And that's a better term, add-on supporting projects of, you know, the big— right. Okay, we'll put that on the agenda for the next meeting to look at that. Um, other questions? Any public comment on the progress of the current work on the bond? I just want to say that it's nice we're able to discuss that we have leftover funds at the end of a project. So that's, uh, it's a nice position to be in. And I'm assuming that some of these added projects could be things that were previously got cut due to value engineering or something like that, that at the end we're able to add back on. Yeah, we'll bring back a list. Okay. All right, let's then move on to 5.2 on the agenda, which is an update on revenue and expenditure for Measure T. That's Erica, correct? Okay. Okay, I am— this is the first report I want to present. It's the bond income and expense summary that presents the actual update for the fiscal year until December 31st, 2022. To sum up for Fund 21, The numbers are highlighted. Um, there is the first quarter interest revenue, which is about $70K, and $8.5 million in actual expenditures. Is that— you know, question So just to clarify, in the last column, subtracting $190-something, small text, from $202 is what's remaining unspent in the bond. The total column on the far right. Yes. Minus the $191, right? Oh yes, that's the— actually, that's the total expenditures for Fund 21, but there was also Prop 39, which is $2 million, the Fund 25. Right. Okay, thank you. Any questions or discussion on, uh The income expense summary. Okay. So this is financial assistance. That's the board report, uh, 5B, Prop B, because reporting report for this, uh Uh, income and expense summary I just presented you, and it shows the year-to-date actual column where the numbers were taken into account. It shows the year-to-date actual for only Prop 39. Thank you. From the bond accountability report, those, the projects on the left side row and budget and expenditure, uh, as of 12/31/2022, both systems, accountability and the district financial system, FCSD, are reconciled. 2023. Uh, and so total actual of all funds combined— go to the last, uh, page— $303,721,180. And you can see that total budget is $314,600,000. For the, the negative values at the project level, um, very small. Yeah, yeah, those are little budgets, uh, that we need to update, and I actually looked at Some of them. Related, that, you know, providing these schools being free. Yeah, so update the, the budget. All right, thank you. So the project— the top part shows Prop 39, 121 on the left side, and 125 funding sources, and its total matching deficit of 214.7 million. If you scroll down, down the last page There is a 1.4 million in— for the contingency, 1.1 million is in— and about 300,000 in project and construction. Any questions on that report? All right, anything— oh, public comment on the financial reporting. So I'm a finance person, too. I'm— and— but I know one thing I've learned is it's sometimes hard for other people to understand the takeaways, especially when there's 1,000 numbers on it. And I think— I guess I would ask the CBOC if— what's most useful to you in terms of understanding the status of, of the expenditures and whether we're on track, and More importantly, what— or not more importantly, but equally importantly, would this be useful to share with the public? I don't think the public would understand some of this. So even though it's important, right, I'm not dismissing— please don't— I, I mean, no disrespect. But so I did give a report— I mean, this to Carl, and I can give it to anybody else— about— this is from South Whittier. It was kind of a, a layman's term of understanding what, you know, is dry rot repairs, electrical upgrades, fencing, for, you know, and it showed by school, by, by category, in a way that I think a layman could understand. And maybe that would be just— it's just one way of considering it. And I don't know, as far as other things that are useful for oversight, and just some brainstorming and talking with several other CBOCs, one is maybe perhaps you would want to request from the district change orders, right? So if I was doing it, I want to understand what was What was, you know, initially something's approved, and if it goes over, over a certain percent, 10% or 15, whatever percent, why? And, and digging into that. So that's one thing I would think about looking at. So you're kind of sampling in that regard. Another one is, um, contracts that are no bid, right? I would want to see any contract that's no bid, and especially, um, and I would actually— yeah, especially for— and I would want to see details of any contract that was done given to somebody that was contributed to the campaign, right? You guys had $150,000 of campaign from developers approximately. So those are, those are things I would probe into. And then the last one, which I think is really important, and you did kind of get to it, and I guess it's in 5.3, and so I won't come up again, but is the check register. So I kind of think of it as a, as a, if it was in a database format, it's in a PDF. So if it was in Excel and it has like, you know, an old-fashioned like check register, I think of like you know, the date, the amount paid, the vendor, and the purpose, right? And I think one of the— in that long report of expenditures that you do have in 5.3, it doesn't— I mean, a lot of times it says services, so you don't know what it is. And it's got a lot of district salaries, and I don't know what, you know. So that needs to be looked at. But I think that general format looks pretty good, and it's close to a check register. And if that was an Excel where you could parse it and say, give me all the spending for, you know, um, Beals Martin, or ask Atlas Periseli, or whatever, or John P.C. Wong, whatever. So you can kind of sort it by vendor, by time, by whatever, and, and look at it and determine how much is being spent on what, and cut it in, you know, in a kind of like in a relational database way, or in Excel. So those are things, and I think that would— and you know what, honestly, you don't— that way it frees you guys up, especially if you're only meeting a couple times a year, 4 times a year, which really means 3 times a year. You're letting the public do the work for you, right? And, and, and they can do the the over— some of the oversight as well, because that's the job, is sharing it with the public. So thank you. Thank you. All right, any other, um, discussion or questions on 5.2? All right, so we're going to move into 5.3 now. Um, this was an item requested at the last meeting to be added to the agenda. Review the information on the full list of approved Measure T bond projects for compliance with Measure T ballot language. And you didn't print it out, thankfully, Olivia, but you sent it to us as an attachment. I don't even— I didn't even look to see how many pages it was, the full list of the expenditures. And to Chris's point, it's a little hard to work with because it's a PDF and it's— you can't really sort it or Um, so we might figure out how to remedy that in the future, but it's a start. It lists, I think, uh, every— Rick, every expense for the bond is listed on that. That is correct. So it is expenditures through October 31st, 2022, um, and I'm happy to work with you, Carl, or any other CBOC member on refining that for our future, uh, and at some point It could be an interactive process as well. Thank you. So we have— thank you for providing the text of the bond measure. And the idea here was in some way to be able to look through the list of bond projects and make sure that we're comfortable that they are aligned with what the voters voted for when they passed the bond. Back in 2015. So any discussion, comments, questions on, on this topic? The— just for reference, the attachment that was sent out was 5-3, Measure T expenditures. And, uh, just for reference, it's 200— no, even bigger, 362 pages. I guess my question is, is there a way to, especially for new committee members, kind of pull the gist of what, what we're doing, how, to what extent we are, not enforcing, but overseeing sort of like a refresher? When we started with the process with the first CBOC group, there was a member from the San Mateo County Council that came and gave an overview. We could go in that direction. We would contact John Byers, who who is the legal for San Mateo County, and he will send one of his attorneys to come out and give you the overview. That's what we did the last go-round. I think that's fair. I mean, I think for, for us to sit here as a committee and continuously just give information— we're an oversight committee, and an oversight committee is just there to be a check mark, or is it just actually I mean, as Carl mentioned, we're, we're technical. We're not really doing anything like for the annual report. It's already audited, so I think it wouldn't be good for us to get an overview of the kind of the subcommittee have already— you know, everything does go through the board to be fully approved, so we have no— I think the idea is what say we I guess, as a citizen— I mean, if we object to an expense being applied to, say, you know, a plumbing repair, what is the end result? What are we supposed to do? I mean, obviously, you know, that's, I guess, the idea of what, what having a better, clearer idea or understanding of that. I mean, everything is— that's not done through us anyway. There's a plumbing repair being done that's already approved by another board, correct? I mean, that's already being reviewed. So it's— it is— it would be better to understand, or if we're just a check mark, I'll contact John Niblin's office. The next meeting is— there is a curiosity because the amount of, you know, the next Measure S funding is not out. So, so is this something that could come up in May for us? We vote on it before it even comes out? There's been a question in the house. Well, we do have the, um, 5.7, which is discuss topics for the next meeting. So we could— I'm, I'm jotting down some notes here of things that have come up, and we could certainly add that as an agenda item, which is basically a training session, if you will, on what the heck the CBOC should be doing, especially if this is the committee that's going to go on to look at Measure S. I mean, Measure T is pretty much done and wrapped, as we learned from Will. So I'll, I'll put it on my working list here. I, I'd also like to add to the list to see if we could have a vote for Prop 39. Okay, I think that was requested last time and didn't make it on for some reason. I apologize. Uh, okay, other questions? Um, I guess We've— Rick, we can work on maybe putting this into a more actionable format. I mean, I have to say that I went through and looked at all the FY— the, the current year expenses just to get an idea of what's in there, and even that's a monumental task. So, and I think to Chris's point, some of the things aren't labeled particularly well as to what the heck it is, and that may not be an easy fix if there's no more detail behind this. But Thank you for providing the information. It's a good start. Other comments or thoughts on this topic? Okay, that takes us then into 5.4, and this is review proposed changes to the bylaws for approval at a future meeting. So we have 2 documents. One— Cameron, thank you for— the one with the handwritten notes are your suggested changes, correct? Yes. And then we have a typed up version that includes, I think, most of those changes, but some others. Yeah, they're slightly different but substantially similar. And who prepared this one, Rick? The— somebody with the Word document. That is just the PDF. Uh, yeah, that was through legal counsel. We worked with legal counsel on looking at the handwritten ones from, uh, and then, uh, also because this isn't for action tonight, it was for discussion, uh, the other, uh, ideas or language in there as well that could be discussed and brought back at a later date. Perfect. Okay, so I guess to start, Cameron, if you— are you satisfied that your changes that you suggested have been reflected in the typed-up version? They are slightly different. I reviewed it when I arrived, you know, in line by line, so I could, so I could do that. I would just say my goal was to create clarity. It was a fairly poorly written document. Internal consistency on definitions and terms. Those are all just simple ticky-tack, right? Removal of redundancy between sections. Some of that got left in, in the red line. I don't know that it's helpful to repeat things in different sections because then which one are you enforcing? And remove duties that belong to the board of trustees and not to us because it creates the appearance for the public that we have the ability to enforce those provisions when they don't belong to us. Some of that language was softened but not removed, whereas I had suggested that it be removed. There's also a lot of operational ticky tack detail that doesn't need to be in bylaws, like exactly what months our meetings have to fall in and things like that. I tried to remove that and make it back at the altitude of bylaws that, you know, we meet quarterly as opposed to those kinds of things. And then clean up some of the legal definitions which were poorly drafted, like what is quorum, so we had simplicity of knowing when we are there. That was kind of my goals. Some of it is reflected, some of it is not. But I, I'm, I'm not majorly opposed to the redlined version, although I, I do think it's still, you know, there, there's still some internal redundancy, and there are still items in there that are actually board duties. But the language around what we're supposed to do about it is softened. I just don't want to create a false impression for the public that we can enforce when the board fills an empty seat, for example. That does not belong to us, and I was trying to make that clear that that's board policy, so it should be in our bylaw. It's better. Thank you. Um, yeah, Rick. Yeah, Cameron, if you would, if, uh, we can create some emails on that and then we can incorporate that in, uh, and review and then bring that back. Does anyone have— I, I have some specific things I highlighted, but, uh If others have particular areas that we can— we've deputized Cameron here to be our bylaw editor. So I'm sure you can capture notes. Does anyone have any comments or questions about the changes that are in the redline version? Yeah, just hold up for just a minute and we'll go through. Thank you. I had one more while people flip, which is it references our committee code of conduct. That was my first one. I'm not aware that we have one, but it sounds like a great idea. Is there a— is anyone aware of a CBOC committee code of conduct? It's referenced here. I haven't seen it either. Is there a District 1, some overarching— the overarching one that we utilize is just our governing handbook that we have. Yeah, the other option would be to remove the references entirely because it doesn't exist. Um, there are specific conduct items outlined in the code of— or in the bylaws themselves. They're already in there. Yes, and things— and what we're duty is to review and you know, be prepared on. But we could remove it. I just don't know if there's other things, um, around being respectful of Robert's Rule of Order, or, you know, how, how we want folks to engage with the public. I don't know if there's anything we as a committee think would be valuable in there, but we can just also strike it if it's not essential. My preference would be, rather than go right thumb, would be to strike it, since I think most of the items are covered directly in the bylaws. Anybody feel like we should be creating a code of conduct for the CBOC? Or want to volunteer to do so? Okay, so it sounds like if we just take it out. All right, so my next— this is page— Let's see, are there page numbers here? Yes, page 3, right after E, there's an insertion. I believe this is an insertion. At least 2 additional pers— at least 2 additional persons shall be appointed and designated by the board as at-large voting members of the committee. Additional at-large members beyond 2 may participate on the committee as non-voting members. I think that's an addition, isn't it? As an addition, that's an example of a board obligation that's being put in our bylaws, and I think that just creates confusion from the public for where to go to seek enforcement and provide comment. Does the actual bond measure specify— size of our board now with our updated bylaws, so that's why the lawyer would have put that language in there, but Not how I feel you're— well, we're establishing a minimum, but we're not establishing— so the additional— so, so the board holds the obligation to determine the size of our committee and to appoint the members to fill the vacant Right. We have a minimum requirements about who must be here. That's why it's called committee composition because we have certain roles that must be filled. And then it can be bigger than that. So this doesn't need to be added. Right? Like, yeah. The, the committee composition says at least— You're right. You're referring to 3.0 where it says at least 7 members including— So I'm looking at at least 2 additional persons shall be appointed. Well, and I think in a, in a, in a community that has struggled to have full bond oversight committee and full attendance, I would maybe think the board wants to rethink how they've expanded the size of the committee. And so I'd rather not build that into our bylaws in some way when it's not our responsibility. That, but that's an example of where I think we should be really clear what belongs to the board of trustees and what belongs to us. And it is pretty clear in 3.0, it says the board shall have sole discretion to select and appoint and determine size, and it shall be at least 7, including these— what, 4— these 5 categories, right? So it does seem there's no reason to insert that language. So I think we should strike that and just leave it at the board's discretion, as you said so eloquently. Okay, next thing that caught my eye. I don't know if this was there before. 3.3, page 4, I guess top of page 4. If a committee voting member position becomes vacant, the committee chair may request that a current non-voting at-large member assume assume that seat if they meet the criteria. But there are— there's no requirement to have non-voting at-large members. We just struck that. That's not from me. No, I think that is part of the— it would be contingent on that other statement, right, of having the non-voting members, and that's why that's in there. So this will be part of the discussion that we have about this before we bring it back. So I think we should strike that and that addition based on the previous Okay, and then let's see if I had anything else. Um, so in, uh, this is the bottom of page— where am I— page 6, um, 4.6, succession. Committee members serving as chair or vice chair shall continue to serve until a successor is approved to ensure that an officer remains on the committee at all times. I get why someone inserted that because we did have a gap and it caused a lot of issues. But I think it's confusing because does that mean the chair can continue past their term limit until a new chair is, is elected? It's— That's not my language either. I know I'm looking at you, but I'm more looking at you for comment than I am for— I mean, I would strike that. I think it— I, I'm not sure what the enforcement mechanism is either, because every committee member has an ability to resign as provided for in the bylaws. So if you chose to resign, what, what would happen? Yeah, it basically says the chair shall continue to serve regardless of whether you want to or not, uh, or if your term is even valid. So I think, um, I get why it's there, and maybe, I don't know your thoughts, Cameron, if there's some other way to ensure chair continuity. It goes to the meeting scheduling and when the board fills vacancies, right? So you have to fill vacancies when there are upcoming meetings. That action can be taken to appoint a new chair. If you wait until the conclude the the meetings have all concluded on a current board and then you fill those vacancies, you of course wouldn't have a gap. But that's not in our control. We can't demand that the board fill vacancies. We can report to the public that they have not. That's listed in our tasks, um, and, and, you know, where there's been delay that caused problems. But we can't— so— But we can elect the chair. And chair and, and vice chair. Yeah, and we can be responsible corporate citizens and elected in our last meeting, you know, as a committee, even before the chair retires. Yes, turns out basically, I mean, I get that, that's, that's what created complications here, but it's also, it's not entirely in our control. You, you have, we have term limits, we have lives. If, if the positions are not filled in a timely way to provide continuity it's near impossible to provide continuity. Perhaps amending it to say active committee members serving as chair can continue. I'll continue to serve because, to Cameron's point, you can't control when somebody turns out or moves. You know, you might— somebody might move in between the May and in August meeting, for example. But if they're an active committee member, they could continue to serve until a successor is approved. Well, wouldn't it be more of a process side where it's about the notification and the continuity planning? Right. So like Carl, his term is up I think roughly around when mine is in the middle of this year, and so having that discussion, say, in this quarter, that if Carl is going to choose to not, uh, continue on the board, uh, it'd be good to know that sooner than later, more or less. Yeah, although those are all operational, um, you know, um, professional courtesies that we would extend to the board. Encapsulating them in the bylaws to solve a problem that was not the responsibility of the board, I, I struggle with? I mean, of the committee that, you know, was the responsibility of the board to fill that in a timely way. I think some meetings got canceled. I don't really know. It wasn't on the committee. Yeah. So the situation was that at the meeting where a new chair and vice chair would have been elected, that meeting was canceled. The vice chair and the chair then termed out before the next meeting happened. And so there was no chair or vice chair, and then there was such— there, so there was no one to call the next meeting. So I think your, your point, Cameron, is, well, just don't let that happen. Yeah, fair enough. Okay, so I think, um, then we're suggesting to remove that addition in 4.6. Yes. Okay. The— on 5.3, the— there's an addition there on the quorum. Is that pass muster, Cameron? A quorum is established if the number of seated voting committee members present and voting is a majority or 4 members, whichever is greater. So I mean, our bylaws set our quorum, but there's also legal definitions of quorum out there. I— that the 4 members is not my language, because our committee is larger than that based on how large the board has set it. I think anything they put there is an improvement on the prior language. But I tried to simplify it and just say it's a majority of seated committee members and excludes any vacant committee position. Um, I, I— for me, the only useful addition there is that it explains that, um, what a seated voting member is. So I, I think the, the quorum— going back to that, like, voting member versus non-voting member nonsense that comes Right, like, like quorum is the majority of those of us who are here, right? The number of people here is more than half of the filled positions. Yes. The way it was previously written, it included unfilled positions. Yes. And had like crazy math against that. That's right. I didn't get that. So we don't want unfilled. We want to be clear on what— on how the quorum is established. Yeah, but I don't know that has anything to do with voting or non-voting members because last I looked for all voting. And then if we remove the non-voting members, which we added above, then I think it becomes a moot point. Exactly. It's a contingency based on— okay, so that can be fixed because we removed the non-voting members. Fix 2.0. Perfect. I think you'll all be happy to know that that was my last question. I, I have one more, which is Section 3.3, subheader D, it's on page 4. Um, so this is a duty that belongs to the board, and I had suggested that it be struck because we do not appoint new members. So I'm not sure why our bylaws say that. Um, we're just basically saying the board will appoint, but we have no ability to enforce it. So I would again echo that this belongs in the board policy, which is where it exists. And not in our bylaws. We had public comment on the, the vacancies at the last meeting. That's right. For those who were not here, I think some of that is misdirection from having sloppy documentation of what we do and do not own. Yes, great point. So your recommendation is to just strike D altogether? It already exists in board policy, and that's who can do it. That will require renumbering E to D, though. Oh no. Any comment on that? Okay, great. So the action is that Cameron is going to work with Rick, get a new draft of this with our comments included and hopefully resolved, and we will vote on that at the next meeting. Thank you, Cameron. Oh, sorry, you did ask for comment. Go ahead. So on 2.1, um, this kind of— and again, 2.1 is kind of presuming that S and T are going to be the same. Um, I also— I would have thought this document would be for T, and then you might have another one for S. You may or may not have, um, same people I don't know if that was voted on, whatever. So that's the question. Um, 3.0, uh, the board committee size. There's nothing in statutes— again, this is drafted by council— there's nothing that, um, that may be noticed, but there's nothing in the, um, statutes that says that the board determines the committee size. That's up to you guys. The CBOC determines the CBOC side. There's nowhere— you have a different— you've seen something different? Yeah, I, I, I— okay, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't, I didn't find anything in statute that says the board determines the CBOC side. Um, okay, so, um, and then same with 3.1, there's no statutory requirement for a member to live in the district or work in the district. That that can be a choice. Maybe you want that, maybe you don't. It's a choice. Um, 3.3B and C, there is no authority granted by RCSD. Um, so I don't, I don't think that authority exists. Um, the CBOC member— I mean, presumably somebody would be encouraged to resign, but that's something that in history districts have wanted, but the CBOC maybe haven't. Like, you got somebody that's, uh— Which— sorry, could you repeat where that was? Just generally, it's, it's in a couple places, 3.3B and C. There is no provision in the statute that allows CBOC members to be fired by other CBOC members, right? So that's— that doesn't exist in California Constitution. There's no authority granted for that. You can— as a practical matter, you can infer them to resign if they're not showing up or whatever, right? But 4.3, I would suggest somewhere in there adding to the duties of the chair that they be a point person for the public. There's no way for the public to have something to say other than showing up here to email or to do anything or whatever, whatever approach. But you know, how, how should the public engage, if at all, with the CBOC? Um, 4.5, um, I do— the district should not prepare the agenda of the CBOC. That will change that one. Um, 5.0, and okay, so this is a, um, this whole, uh, there is no statute requiring that the CBOC is subject to the Brown Act at all. So the only thing it talks about is that the committee is open, it'll be open to the public, and notice of the public is provided in the same manner as the proceedings of the governing district. You have to give 72 hours notice, and the chair or majority board has to call the meeting. So the issue last time, but the, the serial meet— you can do serial meetings, you can talk to each other. Again, the district doesn't like this probably, but some districts— I shouldn't come out, I'm just saying— you guys should feel free to do whatever you want in between meetings. And, and there is no— there's nothing in statute that says you're subject to the Brown Act. I know others do it, but that doesn't mean it's right, and there, and there's a lot of opinions on that. And nobody's been successful. So it's the language of 15280B is the language that, that, that dictates what you need to do and not do, and it doesn't say anything about the— um, those are my comments. Thank you. Thanks. Um, Cameron, any comment on those items, or anyone else on the committee? I got that from the DA, by the way. So the DA said— he sent me a handbook that said, here's the Brown Act guidelines, and it said only applies to legislative bodies. And you guys don't have a legislative body, so I think it was like— yeah, so there's no— that was the— yeah. And just to be clear, the way our bylaws are written, it says the meetings are subject to the Brown Act. So the provisions around notice and publicity and things like that, it does not say that the committee is subject to the Brown Act. Um, So we, we may want to consider that and think about it. It's interesting. Um, just in, in follow-up, Carl, to your question, comments, I, I would say, um, the 2.1 comment that in different language I, I had proposed striking the specific bond measure entirely and just allowing us to be standing bylaws, um, without having specific bylaws. We can do it either way. I do think that the, um, The materials that the public comments pointed us to last time around FAQs and best practices and everything for CBOC said that it's better to have one for districts. So I did note that to have continuity. And so in terms of best practices— Rick, was there a reason to specifically call out T and S as opposed to just have this be the bylaws of a bond oversight committee? At this point, we only have one oversight committee, but we are in preparation to bring information to the Board of Trustees on the calling of a Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee for Measure S. And at that time, the board will make the decision to either continue on with this committee— I will talk about that in another agenda item coming up— yep, or to convene another committee, right? So it's premature to put Measure S in here. But by the time this would come back, that would be determined. And for discussion. Yeah, yeah. And I think, uh, your recommendation that it doesn't need to call out the bonds, it's just these are the bylaws of a bond oversight committee for any bond. Yeah, it's, it's not called, you know, Measure S, um, bylaws. It's the Redwood City School District bylaws of CBOC, which could be us, somebody else too. There could be 4 of them. And they can all use the same bylaws, and it doesn't need to specify which bonds it's for. That was my thinking, but— okay, I think the language inherent also for additional bond— see, members that we could— if there's other bonds coming forward. So I think it's a good suggestion to keep it. Yep. Any bond oversight committee has a committee composition requirements. Is it the same number? My question, if we're trying to make it generic, board, it is the number 7 minimum, the number of committee members. So I think that applies to any bond. Uh, yes. Yeah. Yep. We are striking the Committee's Code of Conduct in, uh, 2.2, duties. Yes, we should subsequently strike it wherever else it— I'll vote. Yeah. Okay. Um, Chris also brought up this ability of the committee to basically remove any committee member. Um, does anyone have any comment on that, pro or con? I'm trying to think of a circumstance. Yeah, chronic absences that do not allow us to get to quorum. Isn't that already— yeah, there, there was a— so there is no chronic— it's not technically, I guess, it's not permitted. But yeah, well, right, but the provisions that he pointed to in provisions for removal, that one of the reasons you can remove them is for those absences. Has to be a process. They don't, they don't turn off the committee at 2 absences. Okay, it's not auto— you're done. Okay, I'm getting— which would be very nice. Okay. Um, thought it was a valid point about noting that one of the chair's duties is to be the point person for public input. I thought that was— that could be added. You can if you want, or you can just operationalize it and not necessarily have to enshrine it in a bylaw. I mean, right now there is no way for the public to get— other than showing up at this meeting, I don't think there is any way to give feedback or ask questions of the CBOC. So does it need to be in the bylaws? We can operationalize it. The question is, should it be in the bylaws specifically? It works to all the rest of our advantage because then people call and email you instead of all of us. Well, just because it's in the bylaws doesn't mean that would stop. I think it's an interesting question because the only time we are actually functioning as the voice of the committee is right here. Like, any other time when it's either one or two of us is just a member of the public, right? So the outreach could I, I don't know, like the only time that there's actual outreach time to communicate with the committee is right here. So is there a need to have more? I think it raises— so I, and I would add on to that, raises all sorts of questions about whether then RCSD or committee documents that we could be posting publicly and— right, like whether we're providing ample daylight into those private comments, as opposed to the forum where public can attend. I mean, I think you can certainly be receptive and responsive to public input in your role as chair. I, I, I would hesitate to enshrine it in the bylaws, but you're the chair if you'd like to. It's not such a big issue for me. I'd prefer to just find a way to operationalize it so that on the website people could— yeah, can, you know, can ask questions or submit comments, uh, and not have to come to one of these 4 in-person meetings a year. That would have to be a chair— a, a board chair. I mean, we'd have to specify whose information would be listed. I'd be asking me, is there, um, you need to set up a mechanism basically for the public to get info to us, which would be through the website in general or give us, you know, set up individual email accounts or comment cards. We're not using private, you know, private email addresses and, and phone numbers for those things. That's usually how it's done. I was going to invite— Well, my suggestion is that we, uh, I'm happy to work with Rick offline on how we might operationalize this and bring a proposal on the next agenda. How does that sound? Yeah, for that specific item. And maybe do consider the comment card process that already exists for some of the other RCSD school district functions and whether people could be able to submit comment cards through CBOC, which would then reach all of us. I think that's a great recommendation. Does that exist for the board? Uh, yes, I mean offline you can— not No, between meetings I can submit a comment card, or this is just for meetings? You mean all the board members? People call them. Sure. Oh, I'm sure they do, and they're— they have Redwood City School District email addresses and they use their own phone numbers. Okay, I just wasn't aware of a comment card function for the board. It's like a simple little— and there's a digital card for every board board meeting off for the meetings, right? Right, for the meetings. Okay, right. But I'm sure board members were getting called during school closures. Okay, um, any, anything else on the bylaws? Good discussion. I think we're getting a much better, uh, version. And again, thank you, Cameron, for spearheading this and for working with the district to close it out for our next meeting. Okay, moving on to 5.5. This was a request from the last meeting to have an agenda item on the district's plan and outreach to fill the 2 remaining openings. So I, I can share that we do have some applications, as well as working with our communications coordinator on additional outreach. That we are going through right now. We will bring— we expect to bring that along with the recommendations. So this will tie a little bit into 5.6, um, with the outcome of Measure S bond and, and the formation of the Citizens' Oversight Committee. Uh, bring that along with information on the formation of the Citizens' Oversight Committee for, uh, potential appointment to this committee, uh, as well as moving forward with the CBOC for Measure S. So we're on track, and it looks like we may be able to fill our two open positions at this point. So there's currently 9 seated members, right? And the two open positions were— that was a board decision to expand the committee to 11? No, the two open positions right now are the, uh, active member in a business group and active member in a senior citizens organization. There's a— there's headcount openings and then there's required position opening. Okay, so clarity on what we're talking about there, because we're still below the total number of seats when the board expanded the size of the committee. Yes, there's— there'd be 11. Right, yes, 11. We're at 9 right now. Okay, but there was a— I'm just, uh, clarifying because I— there was a, a decision by the board to expand the number to 11 at some point in the last year. They appointed 2 additional members in, I believe, early August, right after I got here, uh, that did not fulfill those— not meet these criteria, so it required expanding the number of members, correct? Got it. Okay. Although we did have a discussion at the October meeting about asking the board to see if any of the current members met any of those requirements. I know I at least didn't see any outreach or question asking whether I met other criteria. Oh, that is true. That was the— did that happen? That is— that, that was— that did not happen. No, no. Okay, and the two, are they defined in the bylaws? I guess they are, right? Um, so we could just— and is— are those organizations defined, or— sorry, where, where is that? Uh, 3.0. Okay, so we're looking at number Is it A and, and B that we're trying to fill? Yeah, and, and as was pointed out to me by public comment, B could be a member in RCSD. I mean, that's a senior citizens organization. We don't know what the members are. There's not an age requirement. There's not an age requirement. Well, we haven't written one in yet, so, so do we have— just to clarify, do we have C? Who's— who represents the taxpayers organization? Oh, thank you. Would you mind sharing what organization that is? You don't have to. I mean, it's, uh, Taxpayers for Common Sense. Okay, thank you. Okay, so I guess the question then, we can just poll, right? Does anyone meet, uh, Item A, um, be active in a business organization representing the community within the school district. This would be presumably like Chamber of Commerce, or— no, any business. I think if you have any role, board officer, would, you know, in a business in Redwood City, just a nonprofit. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Be active in a business organization that represents the business community in this— in Redwood City. I don't think that one's defined like Okay. Does that count? Well, I'm just reading. It says be active. If you read it, it says be active in a business organization representing the business community. Right, so to me that reads Chamber of Commerce or something where it's a— people get together and, uh, to advocate for businesses in the district. That is correct. That's how— that's my interpretation. So is anyone here a member of the Chamber of Commerce? Get an example of who filled that fee before? Yeah. Do you remember who filled that before and what org they were in by any chance? Okay, so I guess we're, we're not finding a match there. Do we have someone who's active in a senior citizens organization, which may be local, regional, statewide, or national? But that just has to be a member of RCSD. I could sign up. So could I. Thanks. It's pretty sad, but it's okay. It costs $6. Are you sure you want to do that? So I don't know if that makes me qualify. Yeah, you get discounts on all kinds of great stuff. I heard— I don't want to be the rep. You don't? Okay. Anyone else, um, representing? I could do it. I mean, we're not trying to twist anyone's arm here because we can still— the district can and the board can approve two new members who represent these Um, so we don't want to be arm twisting. Certainly provide our input to the board that they look— that if they're appointing new members to fill the headcount seats, they also look for members that fit these criteria so that we have redundancy in there. Um, but I, I saw nothing that required— and I think I heard from the, um, advisor that came and provided public comment at the last meeting there's no requirement that they be separate individuals. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, you're allowed to have more than— yeah, more than one role. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Rick, how many applications are currently, uh, submitted for the CBOC? I believe it's either 3 or 4. 3 or 4. And do you happen to know if any of them meet these criteria? Uh, a couple of them do meet at least one of the criteria. The business No. Okay, the senior, the senior. So you think you have someone, one or two candidates for the senior, uh, qualification, but you still don't have someone who's applied that is representing the business community? Not at this point. Okay. Have you done outreach to the Redwood City Chamber of Commerce to ask? Uh, yes, I believe our communications director has, uh, and also has In fact, I know he has for this and for the parcel tax. Okay, you need someone for that too. Yeah. All right, so we have, we have 3 or 4 pending applications. It sounds like someone could fill this role even before the next meeting. Well, that would go to the board for approval, of course. That's correct. And the district needs to continue outreach for the business community represent— representative. Go to meetings and be active. Yes, sorry, I was just looking for, uh— we don't control the size. I, I heard a public comment earlier that we do. I don't actually know the statutory answer there, but I think it's in both policies that they set our size and they have change our size. So I was— but so as, as currently anointed by our board, we are bigger than the RCSD. All right, request of the CBOC that it came to our board to add, correct? Right, that was your request. You really Same. I guess between 10 and 11 it's the same, still need 6, right? You need 7. Oh, half plus one, basically. You are correct about— so it's for voting, but now it's 11, right? My statement is to— maybe— oh, it's a two-thirds and one. We quite— By statutory, we need 7. We need 7. So quorum is the filled seats. So if the seats don't get filled, it's, um, majority of filled seats, right? That's what I was trying to clarify. The, the previous quorum definition included the unfilled seats, but there were insurmountable failures. Yes, very difficult. So that was the primary thing I was trying to fix there, because that was a wholly unheard of— All right. So I think the action here is that— or the goal is to have these 2 seats filled before the May 11th next meeting. The district has applications already that satisfy one and will continue to do outreach to attempt to fill the other. Any other— is that a fair summary of where we stand? And the quorum is based on however many are filled? Okay, anything else, Rick, from your perspective on the membership? Bylaws are adopted, right? Because current bylaws— yes, right. So it is still— until that happens, it is still— quorum is determined by the number of seats, whether filled or unfilled. Okay, well, good thing that we need— going to change them at the next meeting then, because that is a high bar. Luckily we made it tonight though. Okay, uh, we're going to move on then to 5.6, um, and talk about, I'm sure, a topic of interest to everyone here, which is the status of the Measure S bond. Yeah, uh, happy to report that, uh, the Board of Trustees did certify the Measure S election, uh, in January, uh, which started, uh, the clock for, uh, convening the CBOC of 60 days. Uh, that's why we're working to bring that information to the board, uh, either at the, uh, second February meeting or the first meeting in March, uh, where they'll determine, uh, if they want to continue on with, uh, the committee as is or convene another committee. Um, uh, I would like to, uh— it's not formal, but is there, uh, people that are interested, right, and that I can share with the board that would be interested in continuing on with Measure S? Uh, it's not binding, uh, but just information for, uh, the remainder of the board that's not here tonight, uh, as they go through that process. So that's one point. Um, we are working to kick off Measure S. As Will alluded to earlier, we did meet today in preparation for bringing additional documentation to the board for consideration in the coming weeks and in preparation for moving forward with the start of that program as we are concluding this program, right? So there's going to be a place where one transitions completely out into the new one. Uh, but we're starting that process now with Measure S, uh, to get that going as well, so there's not a big lapse in time between the two bond programs. So, uh, information will be going to the board on the 15th of February, uh, followed by a number of actions between then, uh, and late spring, um, and then of course the convening of the other committee. So, uh, Dr. Baker, I don't think if you have anything to add, um, but that's basically it for right now with Measure S. Could you clarify this? What has to happen in the 60 days, uh, from the January whatever date you said the board has to convene? A Citizens' Oversight Committee has to form it and convene it? Yeah, well, yeah, bring it forward and then the meetings will be set after that. Okay, so it doesn't have to have the first meeting in 60 days, but the board has to be assembled, and that's March something then, correct? 60 days from January 20-whatever, March 20-something, right? So we'll, we'll either bring it up the February 15th meeting or the first meeting in March. For how long is your— 2 years, or is it 2 years? Yeah, it's the same. It'll be the same format. And then, uh, if our board, uh, does move forward, uh, asking this committee to move forward then those new terms would be appended to the end of these terms. Measure S on committee meetings have to be held separately from Measure T? No, we would, we would do a combo meeting. It seems like if you— the board decides not to use the current committee members, any who volunteer, the time is— you're not going to have enough time to form a new committee. Is one man's observation, because you'll have 2 or 3 weeks. Well, it's not necessarily forming the committee, it's calling for the committee, and then we have to go through the application process, uh, that whole thing. So it's not actually having a meeting within those first 60 days, it's for the, um, construction of the committee, if you will. I can't think of a better word right now. Uh, just basically the board has to say that we need a committee. Yes. In 60 days, set the parameters for the committee. Okay, got it. Um, do you know when the funds would get released? Uh, we haven't determined that, uh, date by date yet. We're working on that, uh, but that's down the road as well in terms of, of— will it be this year or— yeah, it'll be this year. So the language is different from the 2015 resolution on that? Because that one says the committee shall be established within 60 days. Yeah, established. Yeah, but then we have to build a committee as well. How do you define established? There's no— there's— as of right now, there's no Measure S committee, right? So the board has to create the Measure S committee. Vote to establish it. And I ask Redwood members who is not interested in Measure S committee. Was it— did you say who is not? No, she's not. Okay, I like you're going for the presumptive close here, huh? Okay, that's a fair answer. I mean, and good to know like how many meetings is it's going to be, same amount, and what we're getting into. So I think you're suggesting, Rick, that it would be a combined— so there'd be 4 meetings a year, and Measure T is not too far from concluding. There will have to be a final annual report that the committee signs off on. That is correct. But this is still just the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee, correct? Not the actual Measure S board committee that would make decisions? No, this is just an oversight committee. It's not— it's the, the Measure S decision-making. It's still 100% correct. That is correct. Seems like if we're considering our next meeting in May to have, uh, to go over oversight committees and what they do, um, with a consultant, that would be the time for that committee to be— Jennifer, you're a no. You're definitely a no. No, I'm not a no. Oh, she just asked who was a no, and I, I think I would be— I'm, I'm happy to as well. I was going to ask question another way. What would be the purpose of this committee after it's complete, for those of us who just joined it? Um, and then the Measure T committee, you mean? Yes, I think the T committee— I mean, joined, so there's almost 2 years left. Right, so, uh, is— does that— was the intent that you have to form, officially form, a new committee for S? There's no continuity or rollover into the same committee? That's, that's what we're going to take to the board for a discussion. The board will ultimately make that decision. So the board could decide to just say, yeah, this committee, take it, I think is what you're saying, or could decide something else? Yes. Yeah, that's what the best practices say. I wouldn't senators that it's the same for them, right? But I can't speak for the board, so I think we were— may realize that we still have two absences and there were only four applicants for those. I'm not sure where you're going to go with the ship to constitute a new meeting. I think the board would most be interested in hearing whether or not you guys want, or if everybody is a no. So why don't we just quickly go around? So Jen, you were a yes, and you would definitely do it if asked? And Cameron, you said think about it. Carolyn, where do you— yes, you're a yes, and I'm a yes. Yes. Okay, Paul? Yes. Yes. Okay, all right. Um, I was gonna ask some— oh, just Ronnie, you asked about Measure T. I, I think we previously forecast that the Measure T committee will need to continue through about March of next year. In order to get through the end of the fiscal year, then the audit report, then writing our report on top of the audit, and then voting and passing that to the board as the final act. So even if you don't take on Measure S, you still have plenty of time to exercise your board seat, your committee seat. report that was— I'm sorry, clarify that real quick. So we have the report that we didn't approve tonight, you recall, was for the— this was written by the chairman, Michael, um, and this is for the 2021 year. So there's still a report to be done for the 21-22 year. What's the status of that one? Can you remind the committee? Uh, we're still waiting for the audit for 21-22. So once we get the audit report for '21-'22, then we can write this report and approve that. Then we need to finish this fiscal year, finish the audit for this fiscal year, and then write the report for that. So, so would the, the two committees be running in tandem, separately, or together? Again, is this just what we're— If the board decides to continue on, they would be running as essentially one large committee. Overseeing two bond measures. So, so the agenda would just reflect this for Measure S, this for Measure T, and there won't be much to do on Measure T, bringing in new orders for us, right? Yeah. And, and every meeting that goes by is going to be less and less for Measure T until the final report, uh, is issued. Okay. But the report is ours, correct? That's, that's— yeah, that's what I needed to know. Stick around for the report. It's ours. You have a commitment I'm curious. He does. It's up to him. But do you have a term commitment right now? Commitment? Any member may resign at any moment. Thank you. Well, unless we change the bylaws that the chairman has to stick around for forever until a new one is elected chairperson. Okay, um, any, uh, public comment, Chris? Anything? Okay, uh, so now we're on to our last item, which is topics for the next meeting. So Um, let me just review what I've written down and feel free to add anything, um, or let me know that you're not interested in that topic. So, uh, the first thing I have is this notion of the add-on projects list, and Will volunteered to produce, um, a list of what those are. The second, um, item that I wrote down that piqued my interest, uh, Chris suggested that we look at different ways to present the financial information that's more consumable by the average taxpayer, which I think is an interesting topic for us to discuss or even look at other best practices. The third thing I wrote down— there was actually the training for the CBOC and doing something either at that meeting, or maybe we schedule a separate standalone meeting for that. Um, the vote on the parliamentarian, number 4. Number 5, um, operationalizing public input to the committee, which I think will be much more, um, useful to the taxpayers as Measure S starts to unfold. Um, does anyone have— those were 5 things I wrote down. Does anyone have anything else that they would like to see on the next agenda? The training for the committee, I would just like it to be, you know, what are the roles and response, meaning I would like to know what we can and cannot do as well. That's exactly— okay, okay, perfect, perfect. I just— and would you want to see that in the next meeting as part of the meeting, or schedule something separate? You're, you're saying at the meeting? Start. Okay, any other thoughts? Public outreach— can we discuss the, the website kind of stance of creating that, managing that? I could combine that into basically the public face of the CBOC and, uh, how the information is presented, where it's shown, what's shown there, and how people give feedback. Does that represent what you're— okay, so I had— oh, bylaws. Sorry, go ahead. I had requested at this meeting to get an update on, um, what the other San Mateo County school districts are doing with respect to external counsel. I don't know if we have it available. If not, I'd re— re-agenda external counsel, whether the CBOC at other school districts. And I, I think Rick, you took the action on this last time, have polling the, the community in, in San Mateo County, the other school districts, and seeing whether they have independent counsel for their CBOC or whether their CBOCs rely on the same counsel as the school district. Yes, we did discuss that. It's in the minutes. Yep, and Rick and I talked about it, but I don't— it didn't make it onto the agenda for this meeting. So apologies, but we will put it on the agenda for the next meeting. So Rick, those districts right now, there are 4 of them that have done— that have had bonds, have created, you know, have bonds and have— are done. I know the answer, but I'm not going to say anything. I talked to the superintendents. So what's the answer? They all use their own counsel. The CBOC all have their own counsel? No, no, no, they use the same district counsel. Do they use the same district counsel that Redwood City does? No, that may be— well, Sequoia's— yeah, yeah, Sequoia just got their bond, so, you know, but I'm talking of those who have had bonds that they're completed, and those are the districts that I spoke to. Those superintendents. Okay, do you want to pursue the topic further, Cameron, or, um, how much external— as a resource? Good question. I mean, it varies, it varies, um, and how much we use them. For this, right? Um, but legal rate per hour, it's all— it's probably billed at what, $300? Yeah, $300 to $500 depending on the lawyer. So is there an agenda topic for the next meeting around this topic of outside counsel? Do we have enough information to make a vote? Are we allowed to vote? We have the right to have independent— if we, if we want it. But I think your first statement is probably more accurate about— I have opinions, um, but I'm one member of a committee. And so I think the public has strong opinions, and we've heard them at two consecutive meetings now. Um, and so we have to factor that in as well. But whether people have confidence in the district's counsel that is being shared with us, or whether people would feel better represented by independent counsel. I mean, the rational outcome, not the legal advice here, would be more on the wind-down of one and the outset of the next. So that might be an interesting juncture to have the counsel consideration that would, you know, whatever is done for the new or shared committee may want to, may want to visit that. But I, I guess I would like to know, uh, what is the problem we're trying to solve? Is it we, we want different counsel? Because if we had independent counsel, it would come out of the district's general fund, right? Right. And so, you know, I think we want to look at the ramifications of things we might be posing on district funds? As we're— are we, are we trying to get, um, a different council, which, you know, which that can happen and it still be the district's council rather than having independent counsel and then inflicting additional financial burden on the district? I mean, what, what is the problem we're trying to solve? Have, have a more competent or diff— different Council, that conflict of interest. It's the conflict of interest. It's the council advising us. The point that it may be different than council sharing the representation who does not want to find that the district has misspent funds or not, you know, done something correctly. So they are then in a, in a conflict of interest position. It, it's a hypothetical. There are some examples that have been pointed out. Over time. It also, it is an expense. So it's, it's a, it's the balancing of that as a committee. Well, is it an incremental expense though? Because wouldn't council be consulted regardless? 8 hours would need to be expended whether it's the district's council or an independent one. I would say that we have spent— Hypothetically. A lot of committee time in our first 2 meetings on things that could have been better served by better legal advice. But that's just my perspective. But that citizen's time, I mean, we're not billing out for our time, unfortunately, right? We're still public committee, right? Yeah, who was unable to hold, you know, sure, like it wasn't a— yeah, but, but the, like, I also recognize the expense similar for others. Sir, want to know, like, any way to capture how much— or maximum not to exceed value that we would be spending on this? Because it seems like a moot point if we're going to spend thousands of dollars on— But wouldn't we spend the money anyway? If we need to consult with council, we either go to the one the district has or another one. Are you saying we, we have a budget? The district's paying for— I mean, the, the district's paying for it now. I'm, I'm sure there's been a big, big legal bill for the CBOC, uh, just from the last, you know, couple of meetings. So the, the, the check is being written from the district, just an addition either way. Well, it's not a retainer. I guess the, the question I have is, how are we even removing conflict of interest by having independent counsel that is paid by the district? We're— so the argument is the fox is guarding the hen house, so getting another fox to also guard the henhouse. Now you have two foxes guarding the henhouse. And what, what risk have we reduced by having an independent counsel that is still paid for by the district? I mean, I would say that there's the ethical guidelines of the counsel to actually give us the best legal advice possible. And whether that's the district counsel or independent counsel, I don't think that matters, but it actually I don't understand why you would be introducing another group into this whole situation. It sounds like a great way to have a lot of letters go back and forth and really start ramping up legal hours, um, more than, you know, what we have right now. Well, my suggestion is, since this isn't on the agenda, that we not discuss it too much more tonight. But I— one suggestion is we could, uh, we have the ability to form a sub committee. If those— there may be a few members of this committee who are interested in pursuing this topic, investigating what the options are, talking to the district, maybe talking to other CBOC and coming back with a proposal at our next meeting that would educate the committee and, and come with a recommendation. That, that's one approach we could take at this juncture, or we could just put something on the next meeting's agenda to talk specifically about this topic, and everyone does their research comes prepared to, to discuss it. I think initially though, Cameron's was just a question. Yeah, she— hers is initially just who is the council. I don't think she was specifically asking for— we got public comment, and so I wanted to know what others in our region are doing. Correct. So she's not necessarily asking for council's time as much as she's just asking who that council is. So I don't— you know, I think we addressed that part to answer your question. I don't think we need to— I don't— I mean, I don't want to moot your topic at all, but I mean, I think, uh, that at least my— the billers satisfy what the requirement is. So I think you're right. I mean, that was your initial question and why wasn't that on the agenda, and then Dr. Baker answered it. I don't know if it's to your satisfaction or you want to continue to ask the district. Um, But then it led to a bigger discussion about should the CBOC have independent counsel? Sure, correct. And I'm suggesting that we could take two routes to address that rather than talk about it here. One would be to just put an agenda item on the next meeting to discuss the topic further, or form a subcommittee of interested parties to go research and come back with a recommendation that we vote on. I think that, that's what I'm suggesting. One of those two. Or just drop it altogether if there's no interest from the committee to further discuss it. Uh, the third option would be to have the district's counsel explain to us how they manage the potential conflict and how they would alert us if it— there was an actual conflict. I think it should become an agenda item because I think, go back to Carl's suggestion, that we're going to have to have that counsel be there's going to be a bill rate that'll get associated with that, right? So maybe make an agenda item to vote upon if we could go that route. Rather, I don't need— by the next meeting, like more formally what Dr. Baker just said, like what the standards have been in similar districts. And there are— the other 4 districts are ones who have had bonds and they're completed already. Sequoia, I don't know, that maybe they have 3 different law firms that Sequoia. I, I have no idea what they're doing. They utilize 3-day clock. I guess the question is, how do we put this— like, what information do we need to vote? And, well, I think one, uh, so let me just review the options that I— as I think they are. One, uh, just put a discussion topic on the next meeting agenda on this item, and people can do whatever research and ask whatever questions they want in advance of that and come prepared to talk about what they think the CBOC should do. No voting, just a discussion topic. Second option is— I, I guess I, I would call it a subcommittee does that work offline and comes with a proposal to vote on, discuss and vote on at the next meeting. Third option that Cameron suggested was have the district council come to the next meeting and present how they're managing the conflict of interest. Does that So we have to— if we can retain them, we're relying on them to manage that. So it's— an option would be to hear what they, what they think about it, how they manage that. There's the 2 questions, right? There's the potential conflict, and then there's the competence. And so, and the committee kind of needs to be evaluating both of those as we go. But tabling the second, you know, if the concern is that a potential conflict could come up in particularly an expense and how they would advise. They must have a process if they feel confident to advise both of us, because under their ethical duties, they're required to be honoring this. But maybe they would come and tell us that the district is their client. That would be illuminating, right? And that they don't view it that way because that's their client and they're offering us, you know, kind of gratuitous services, like as part of that engagement. I don't know. I don't know what their perspective is on it because I don't, I don't know how counsel in the specific space work. Thoughts? District input? Rick? John? Any— I mean, I think we've got bylaws to get done as well, so I think just having council here would be the best option just to, you know, listen. We have two new committee seats are filled by May. Maybe that's a good informational meeting to talk about it. Don't pull up on vote, so everyone's digest— I, I would suggest, Carl, my recommendation would be to bring back your numbers 1 and 3 for the main meeting, which was a discussion about this in concert with district council talking about their role. Sounds like a fair proposal, everyone aligned. So I think what we're saying is we would put it on the agenda as a discussion topic, have district council come and answer questions, or even present on how they manage— what, what is their competency and how they manage the conflict question. Does that sound good? It's going to be an action-packed meeting because we're going to have this training session and this topic and signing off the bylaws. Um, that was Just kidding. I think we also need to put this on the agenda, don't we? We didn't approve the report. So— So we're going to have to re— we're going to need clarification on what exactly we're approving, um, from the council that we're not sure we can trust, but it's the best that we have at the moment. Um, and then we'll need to vote again on the, uh, report. Is there a deadline by which the report is supposed to be delivered to the board? Is that in the bylaws? Cameron, do you This is a check one. It's, it's not delivered to the board, it's delivered to the public. Oh, it is? I thought it was— I thought it was— oh, it's, it says the— to the board and the citizens. Yes. Okay, that's the wrong space. And does— did the bylaws say, uh, when At least once a year. So when was the last report issued? Doesn't say what year it has to pertain to when this is issued. And these are so poorly written. Yeah, we're getting— okay. All right, so, um, to wrap up then, any other items? Um, I have 8 things noted now. Anything else for the next meeting agenda? How long did the training take? About 45 minutes. That's the standard. I feel like it's going to be a 3 or 4-hour meeting. I think we could, especially if the district is able— the board approves some new members. If you're up for it, we could do it as a Zoom meeting sometime between now— the Zoom training between now and the next meeting. Can't do it. Why? We have to— it's not because of February 28th we no longer— right, this, this, this group here, my understanding, has to follow the legislature that's just being passed on February, which is already in on the books, not unless they retract February 28th when you had virtual meetings. Remember I think we're, we're talking about a training session that we're not talking about a board meeting. I mean, maybe we're mincing words here, but this is not meant to be a, a meeting of the CBOC. I mean, I'm guessing the board goes to trainings, right? You don't have to agendize that, and it's not a Brown Act meeting when the, the trustees go to— the trustees, I have to agendize it. Yeah, just like we did not long ago, and we opened it up to the public, that one. Thoughts, Cameron? Uh, in my experience, the meeting where you go over the roles and responsibilities abilities is best done in person because it allows everybody— like, we've had really good discussion tonight, and it allows that discussion when we're in person. And I would, um, I would support it being in person rather than virtual, even if we termed it some other type of meeting. Okay. And are you okay if it extends the length of the next meeting to include this, or are you suggesting do it as a separate meeting in-person, agendized and all. Was that clear what I was saying? It's a— it's very clear. I'm just thinking that it's been, um, difficult for the group to come together and, um, form a quorum, so probably best just to do it in the same meeting. Okay. Any dissenting opinions about that? I know we talked about it a little earlier, but now knowing that it's 45 minutes, are we okay doing all these things in one meeting. Like 30 and then 15 minutes of questions, you know. 15 to 30 minutes questions. Okay. Um, any, uh, before I close this out, any public comment on agenda items? No? Okay. I had one more question. Oh, I, I, I would like to understand if the board's equity policy applies to bond expenditures. And this follows a conversation I, I've had with Rick when I first joined about the per-student spend under the current bond, um, and it's very disproportionate. I, I was finally able to do the math, which is 6 sites, and it ranges from like $1,000 a student at some sites to $80,000 a student at other sites. And the $80,000 site is the one that's not at capacity and not at sustainable, um, attendance. And so just, I'm curious, the board has that obligation to analyze expenditures. I assume that applies to bond expenditures, so that equity analysis must be out there somewhere. I think it would be helpful to see it. This, this was brought to light. I will say it was a very helpful site visit, beautiful construction. I was very impressed. I did note that when I toured Measure T, there were classrooms and enrichment facilities that were gorgeous and well-built that were entirely unoccupied this school year, um, which drove me to look at the enrollment when we have portables and other things on other sites. And one of our duties is to look at whether we're maximizing facilities with this bond spend. So that was what, what brought this to mind, um, was the amount of money that had been spent in a site that It's— they're literally sitting fallow. Are you suggesting an agenda item then for the next meeting, or— I, I'd love to see the equity analysis. I assume it exists. Perhaps it could be included in our documents, and then if there was any discussion to be had on it. Any— we, we don't determine the, the project list. That should be based on the facilities Master Plan. Sorry, correct, right? Yeah, and we have the project list, but the, the board has the ability under its equity policy to analyze expenditures and allocate financial resources equitably. So I presume they've looked at that for this. Just want to see it. Is it a factor in— I mean, because the, the rationale on dollars per student is to create and allow projects to come up with a— that is, that doesn't— that's unassociated with the number of sites and, and/or the size of it. Yeah, it does. It's just when you look at our duties, we're supposed to talk about, um, maximizing expenditures and use of joint facilities and provide input on that and I don't, I don't know how to do that when I see beautiful construction sitting empty other than to understand the kind of analysis that went into it. And I've seen the list, so that's all. I, I just want to see that. It feels like a really big topic. I, I'm interested in it as well. Really big topic. Granted, it is bond funds, but like, I can't believe the analysis is supposed to exist. Does such an analysis exist and could be easily shared with the committee, or— I would have to check. Okay, I'll put it on my tentative list of agenda items and we can— Excuse me, Carl, what day were you— were you at TAF and what time? It was empty. There were no supplies. There were no indications of any children. Like, what day and what time? The site visit. That was not Saturday. Let me see if I can— um, that was it. It was, it was an afternoon, late afternoon. Yeah, it was a late afternoon. There's— okay, school's probably out. I know Garfield School was— it was being used as storage, like tubs of stuff. I mean, wait, wasn't that a day that school was not in session? That's why we did it then. No, I think we had planned for that, but then we— it was a different date. Remember coats hanging on the thing where the classrooms were full? I'm saying it could have been. I, I would like to go to principal and see that time and date and see why it wasn't being used, because maybe there's a reason for that. It was either November 21st or December 1st. I'm not— one was at 4 to 6 PM. I don't know if you remember, Cameron, which one you were on. And another was done at 12:30 to 2:30 on December 1st. So November 21st, 4 to 6 PM, John, and then December 1st, 12:30 to 2:30. Um, yep. I think you were on the second one, Cameron, I believe, the December 1st, 12:30 to 2:30. Yeah, no, for me it was just an observable moment that when we toured, um, you know, Orion and Garfield the classrooms were full, there were, there were coats hung everywhere, there were names on people's desks. And then when we toured TAF, we walked into the beautiful makerspace, saw the outdoor space that clearly had never been used, and saw the massive classroom across the way that had no indication children had ever been in it when we're well into the school year. Caught my attention. That's oversight, right? Like— But you want to see the number of students enrolled at the school. No, I got that from the CBOC. So— Um, there's— I think you're saying dollars spent per student head, basically, by, by school. Okay, what we're doing here, and presumably we're investing there because of equity, so I'd like to see that. But is the number per— yeah, you went to the day— you went the day— you went that, that whole week there were no kids? No, they were there. They were at all the other schools. November 21st. 1st. December 1st. December 1st. You're talking about the steam pot? Steam, and then across the hall, the other steam pot. The other two steam pots. Yeah, empty. Nothing in the cupboard, nothing on the desks, nothing on the walls. I was surprised. Beautiful construction. I guess the question in my mind is, is the CBOC have oversight over this topic? Um, I think the question though is, is interesting because what she's asking is the, the dollar per head. I think— sure, yes, how that number is analyzed though, it could have been dollar per head per need for, for the district though. And I think that's where maybe the clarity— what Jen was mentioning, that can open up a a lot of can of worms. If a project was funded for that, it might have created a larger dollar per head for that district, because based on what the, uh, what the Master Plan was for that school. So it could have— I— the expenditures that you might be asking, if it was like $10,000 per student for that, but they were already getting, say, $10 million to do their construction for that, for whatever means they were That's, that's maybe just how they calculated that dollar per head amount. But I, I think your question is very valid, but I think that's where I was like, it's going to open up a can of worms, which is fine. I just wanted to, you know, throw that out there. It is a separate question though, whether the TAPS lab rooms are being used. Well, I think that's— —candlelight I would just say— and let's try and bring this to closure— is the question on the table is, should this be an agenda topic at the next meeting? Um, and is it appropriate for the CBOC to have oversight on this particular topic and thus have it be on the agenda for CBOC? So, Cameron, is, is valid— she's saying— yeah, I'm not saying her oversight committee— so she wants to know how she can go to the Board of Trustees and ask the same question. Yeah, how are these funds being spent? So I, I think it's a great question. Um, I think it should be an agenda. I, I think she should have her answer for her question. I think it's right there. Any other opinion on the topic? General— use the infrastructure in place. So one of our past— and this is why it caught my attention, um, but I can also just pursue it as a citizen and ask the same questions, right? But is that we are tasked with reviewing efforts by the district to maximum— maximize bond revenues by implementing cost-saving measures. And part of that is about how we, you know, joint-use facilities, right? And this is a district that went through school closings 5 years ago, halfway through all of this, right? I'm just— when I walked in and saw beautiful built stuff empty, it struck me that there's questions there. I don't know what they are, and I don't know how they answered, but I thought maybe the justification is the, the kind of the equity piece. Well, could it not also be, you know, it's used as a draw towards that site pulling more students? We've got our communities, but that's not what the bond measure says. The board decided the Master Plan though, Cameron, right? So I think they were the decision makers based on how the funding got allocated to each of the individual schools. Um, I see, I see your point though overall, but I'm just saying that it's, um Yeah, it, it's just not something that we would be able to change in this perspective, but I, I do understand what your question— Well, we don't, we don't change any of that though, right? We just report out to the public. Um, and so this, in looking at the report that, that we would issue to say funds are being used very effectively, I, I just want to know that I, I want to have confidence in that, right? Could you, for my benefit, reiterate the part of the bond oversight committee you talked about that you think is applicable to this topic? Yeah, it's our, it's our duties. Um, it's E of our duties. E of our duties. Okay. I, I asked for it and I did not ever receive it, so I created it myself. I have it. So I, I— okay, so I think it's a great question, and I think it's one that needs to be answered. It is one that is outside the purview of this committee. It's a great question for the board, um, or for, you know, the district office as to how the particular list of projects was determined. But, um, to do the cost per student, first I think we need to answer the question, is that room being or those two rooms being used, because that's a— that needs to be answered. Um, but bringing it back for the, uh, agenda at this meeting, I think we're not the right group. I just asked for the equity. The last thing on the equity— on the equity piece, you're going to get— or you could get skewed information because a site that is, um, being served by unduplicated students, let's say, could be a site that was recently done and therefore didn't need modernization, didn't need a lot of construction, and therefore not a big capital expenditure was there. I think we're at the board, and I don't have the policy in front of me and I can't speak to it, but my assumption would be that operationally they want to expend the dollars in an equitable way. But on a capital side it's very different because you could have a site that hasn't been touched for a very long time that is in great need and is in a more affluent area of the district, and therefore more gets spent on that site. So looking for the capital dollars, that may not— it, it may be skewed, is all I'm saying. Yes, my apologies. I got to cut you. Thank you, Will. Thanks, Will. Yeah, I, I mean, I, I, I get it. I, I just— it'd be— for me, it would be helpful to know was equity— like, maybe the answer is equity was taken into account at looking at the original master list, and then the way bonds work, you don't deviate. Like, you just proceed, you know, when you're closing schools and planning enrollments and gonna have empty things at the end of the construction. I don't know. I'm just trying to learn that. Like, what, what was the— Well, so Apple, there's like a bias involved in it, and there are other things at play in terms of how many dollars. Yeah, the answer might be there's not one. Well, um, could, could the district share with us the master plan that the public— I know, I know it's a public— it's available. If there is— yeah, yeah, is it available on the district— I, I admittedly, a month ago I tried to find it and could not find it. It's not on It's not on the website, so we need to get that also. It was public for a while, maybe with the website redo it got disconnected, you're saying? It could. Okay, so the one action is some of these funds were allocated prior to the school district's decisions for closing. The, the bond was, I think, 5 years ago. I, I can't remember the exact date, but I think some of that was done. The bond was 2015. The Master Facilities Plan The master plans were done and then edited, but the master plans were already in place. How about— I did— I think they did those modernizations. So the topic is what goes on the agenda for the next meeting. That's what we're— so how about this? I will work with Rick offline. If there's a simple answer to the question and we can get it to you, we'll do it. Um, if it's a bigger topic, then, um, noticed my site visit. I, I, I'm not a construction person, And I don't, I don't know if the rivets are perfect, but I know when kids have been in the room. Okay, I will talk to the principal. Um, one other topic. I was just noting that in our bylaws it says that we need to put on the agenda removal of a committee member for more than 2 absences. I believe Jacqueline Rodriguez Luna has not come to the 2 meetings. So we would need to decide now if we want to put on the agenda for the next meeting removing her from the committee. Does anyone have— I thought there were two committee members down. It would have been the 10th. She's one of the 9. She's one of the 9 but hasn't come to two meetings in a row. So if we're following the bylaw, uh, bylaws, we would put on the next meeting agenda a vote to remove her from the committee. Carl, I believe that'd be a decision you would make as the chair of the committee, and then it would be discussed and voted on at the meeting and not tonight. Well, it says here any committee member may request that the removal of another committee member be placed on the agenda for the committee's next meeting. So I'm simply asking if anyone wants to place it on the agenda for the next meeting. Sure. Voting on that. Yes, topic— not— no, just her to remove them if they show for the next meeting. Any— talk to— yeah, I'm just— Olivia usually sends out the email requesting everybody to come and schedule it. Make it to the— important people. So I'm, so I'm just asking again, does any committee member want to request that her removal be put on the next agenda? No? Okay, fine. Just wanted to get clarity on that. So any, um, closing out 5.7, any other topics for the next action-packed meeting? Great. Not hearing any, uh, let's move to 6, which is the adjournment of the meeting. Uh, motion? So moved. With vigor. Please note in the minutes. Second? Second. Second. And, uh, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Extensions. Great. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everyone.",
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      "text": "I was afraid you were gonna do that. Okay, any other nominations? Alright. So we have a motion to elect me as your chair. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Abstain? Okay, passed. I'm pleased to have been voted your chairperson again. Thank you for your vote of confidence. Vice chair, 4.6 on the agenda. Do we have a nomination for vice chair? Okay, Jen is nominated. Is there a second?",
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      "text": "so there were a lot of expenses, and I don't— again, independent of this particular— I mean, I read that detailed report of all the expenditures pictures, and, um, there were a lot of things that just I would ask about. And I don't know, again, I guess to your point, you didn't review these, you weren't there, but, um, things like $46,000 paid to the Bay Area News Group for advertising— that's not a construction of a facility. Um, a lot of money for just from district personnel for moving, for tree watering, for EV charging, um, and a lot, you know, Terminix expense, termite inspections, $132 a month for water charges. These are all operating expenses. I don't know, I don't know, but I, I would have a lot of questions. And if I, if I weren't the wrong— if I weren't on that CBOC, I would be uncomfortable approving that. So those are— that's just my two cents on that. With respect to the previous topic of Prop 39, I didn't know if we're— when we were going to do that one, but, um, I, I just wanted to say, um, for the record, I disagreed with what was in Section 5.1.3 of the October 27th minutes when, um, Janet Mueller said the authorized propositions include the furnishing and equipping of school facilities. That's not what the California Constitution says. It actually says what's in your bylaws, right? So when you— it says that it covers the construction, reconstruction, rehabilitation, and replacement of school facilities, comma, including the furnishing and equipment of school facilities, comma, or the acquisition of lease or real property or school facilities. So the equipping and furnishing is tied to the CRRR, the construction, rehabilitation, and replacement of school facilities, not by itself. So I don't think you can go in and, you know, equip things with. Uh, so anyway, that's one issue. Um, deferred— bond funds cannot be used for, um, uh, deferred maintenance projects. There's nothing— that's an operating expense. There's nothing— that's like, uh, not maintaining my car and then doing an oil change and then using bond money for that. That's a maintenance expense. If you deferred it, it's an operating expense. And I've talked to, uh, several people about that, including accountants and attorney. Um, so anyway, there's, there's just some things, and I think this underscores the importance of having your own counsel that is not representing the district.",
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      "text": "No, and I think that's what Will was referring to, is the work that, that he— his team, the facilities team, is doing right now is going through, uh, what it'll take to close out the projects that we have here, uh, the punch list items, uh, looking at, uh, the budget, uh, what's left in, uh, we'll call it the reserve at this point, uh, bringing that to, uh, internal committee, uh, to address, uh, in early March, uh, and then from that committee with recommendations to be brought to the board for additional projects. So at this point there won't be additional projects going to the board until that process happens internally. So the March-April timeframe.",
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      "text": "Okay, we'll put that on the agenda for the next meeting to look at that. Um, other questions? Any public comment on the progress of the current work on the bond?",
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      "text": "Yeah, we'll bring back a list. Okay.",
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      "text": "All right, let's then move on to 5.2 on the agenda, which is an update on revenue and expenditure for Measure T. That's Erica, correct? Okay.",
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      "text": "Okay, I think that was requested last time and didn't make it on for some reason. I apologize. Uh, okay, other questions? Um, I guess We've— Rick, we can work on maybe putting this into a more actionable format. I mean, I have to say that I went through and looked at all the FY— the, the current year expenses just to get an idea of what's in there, and even that's a monumental task. So, and I think to Chris's point, some of the things aren't labeled particularly well as to what the heck it is, and that may not be an easy fix if there's no more detail behind this. But Thank you for providing the information. It's a good start. Other comments or thoughts on this topic? Okay, that takes us then into 5.4, and this is review proposed changes to the bylaws for approval at a future meeting. So we have 2 documents. One— Cameron, thank you for— the one with the handwritten notes are your suggested changes, correct?",
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      "text": "And it is pretty clear in 3.0, it says the board shall have sole discretion to select and appoint and determine size, and it shall be at least 7, including these— what, 4— these 5 categories, right? So it does seem there's no reason to insert that language. So I think we should strike that and just leave it at the board's discretion, as you said so eloquently. Okay, next thing that caught my eye. I don't know if this was there before. 3.3, page 4, I guess top of page 4. If a committee voting member position becomes vacant, the committee chair may request that a current non-voting at-large member assume assume that seat if they meet the criteria. But there are— there's no requirement to have non-voting at-large members. We just struck that.",
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      "text": "I think it raises— so I, and I would add on to that, raises all sorts of questions about whether then RCSD or committee documents that we could be posting publicly and— right, like whether we're providing ample daylight into those private comments, as opposed to the forum where public can attend. I mean, I think you can certainly be receptive and responsive to public input in your role as chair. I, I, I would hesitate to enshrine it in the bylaws, but you're the chair if you'd like to. It's not such a big issue for me.",
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      "text": "Yeah, uh, happy to report that, uh, the Board of Trustees did certify the Measure S election, uh, in January, uh, which started, uh, the clock for, uh, convening the CBOC of 60 days. Uh, that's why we're working to bring that information to the board, uh, either at the, uh, second February meeting or the first meeting in March, uh, where they'll determine, uh, if they want to continue on with, uh, the committee as is or convene another committee. Um, uh, I would like to, uh— it's not formal, but is there, uh, people that are interested, right, and that I can share with the board that would be interested in continuing on with Measure S? Uh, it's not binding, uh, but just information for, uh, the remainder of the board that's not here tonight, uh, as they go through that process. So that's one point. Um, we are working to kick off Measure S. As Will alluded to earlier, we did meet today in preparation for bringing additional documentation to the board for consideration in the coming weeks and in preparation for moving forward with the start of that program as we are concluding this program, right? So there's going to be a place where one transitions completely out into the new one. Uh, but we're starting that process now with Measure S, uh, to get that going as well, so there's not a big lapse in time between the two bond programs. So, uh, information will be going to the board on the 15th of February, uh, followed by a number of actions between then, uh, and late spring, um, and then of course the convening of the other committee. So, uh, Dr. Baker, I don't think if you have anything to add, um, but that's basically it for right now with Measure S.",
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      "text": "We have the right to have independent— if we, if we want it. But I think your first statement is probably more accurate about— I have opinions, um, but I'm one member of a committee. And so I think the public has strong opinions, and we've heard them at two consecutive meetings now. Um, and so we have to factor that in as well. But whether people have confidence in the district's counsel that is being shared with us, or whether people would feel better represented by independent counsel. I mean, the rational outcome, not the legal advice here, would be more on the wind-down of one and the outset of the next. So that might be an interesting juncture to have the counsel consideration that would, you know, whatever is done for the new or shared committee may want to, may want to visit that.",
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      "text": "Just wanted to get clarity on that. So any, um, closing out 5.7, any other topics for the next action-packed meeting? Great. Not hearing any, uh, let's move to 6, which is the adjournment of the meeting. Uh, motion? So moved. With vigor. Please note in the minutes. Second? Second. Second. And, uh, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Extensions. Great. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everyone.",
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