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  "text": "There you go. So again, my name is Janet Borgens. I am a probably a 54-year resident of Redwood City. I have been on many boards and commissions. I was formerly on the Redwood City Council for 5 years, and I was on the Measure U Oversight Committee. So I'm very excited to be invited to participate. In this bond oversight, and I look forward to learning more about you. And I have read some of the minutes and some of the back history, and you've done an amazing job. So thank you for that. Leave that on, and we'll go around to Jen. And hi, I'm Jen Gibbons. I guess I'm just, I guess, parent of a student. What's the, the billet for? Yeah. And I have a construction background. I work at construction management at Stanford right now. Nice. And she's the vice chair currently, up until we vote. Maybe somebody new, we don't know yet. I'm Cameron Hoffman, parent, taxpayer, have kids in North Star in the, the district here, and formerly in Roy Cloud. And I am a lawyer. Carl Landers, parliamentarian. You, you are the parliamentarian. Yes, so keep us honest there. Um, thank you. Carl Landers. I have a 4th and a 6th grader in the district. I'm so— I'm a parent, uh, also the chair of, uh, the committee. And, uh, yeah, over to you, John. Yeah, back a long way. Um, I'm Jaipal Sahai. I'm a parent. I have a child at North Star and Orion. And, uh, yeah, just a citizen, and I work in, uh, tech sales, but, um, I'm, uh, I cover SLED, so I cover a lot of, um, state local education. Uh, we do a lot right now with the state of California. So, hi, I'm Carl Metz. Um, I'm a member at large, but I'm also a parent of, uh, students in the Redwood City Schools at North Star and Roy Cloud right now. And I'm an architect by background. Erica. Uh, Will Robinson, bond program manager with RCSD. Martin, uh, facilities director and interim bond director. Olivia, I will add that all my 3 children went through all the Redwood City School District, um, schools from kindergarten on. So, and that was before the day of pre-K, so I'm really excited about— they're all still alive, they made it through very well. Fantastic. Well, welcome again. It's great to have you and look forward to your active participation. Okay, so with that, we'll move into item 2, which is agenda review. Hopefully everyone's had a chance to look at tonight's agenda. And does any member of the committee have any changes that they would like to make? All right, not hearing any. Do we have a motion to approve tonight's agenda? So moved. And a second? Second. Okay, all in favor say aye, please. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, great. So let's move on then. Section 3 of the agenda is our public comment session, and at this time, anybody from the public— I don't know if we have anyone on Zoom. I see someone in the audience. You're welcome to come up to the podium and hit the red button and, um, make any remarks that you would like for the CBOC to hear. Okay, thank you. Um, so, well, Janet, congratulations. Um, my name is Chris Robel, and I'm a Redwood City resident and, uh, taxpayer advocate. And I am— I wanted to just make one comment. Um, I've made this before, but I want to underscore it once again, and it has to do with the The, these bonds are Prop 39 bonds, right? The school district chose to pursue a Prop 39 bond, which is a 55% voter threshold. They could have done a Prop 46 bond, which is a two-thirds threshold. And the bargain when this school— when the Prop 39 was established, and I should have brought the— was, it's called Smaller Schools and Safer Schools Act, and I actually have it printed out here, and it mentions classrooms, classrooms, classrooms, classrooms all through the what, what was voted on by the, by the citizens of California. And so Prop 39 very clearly needs to state the law, the California Constitution. It's for school facilities and no other purpose. And so that's what it needs to be for. And I was— and so I think it's important as the CBOC is going through its job of auditing and, excuse me, providing oversight, that it looks at it through that lens, and specifically And if it's not school facilities, very few things actually say what you can do and what you can't do, right? It's kind of a Venn diagram. It's very clear what you can do— school facilities. That's it. And so when I hear at the last meeting when training was done, and I was honestly quite disappointed that it was conducted by John Niblin— John Niblin was very clear that he represents the school district, and so does DWK. Bond Council represents the school district. And I, I— there's an analogy, and I encourage everybody, and I forwarded to you all training done by CBOC, which John Niblin actually did recommend as a good organization to get training on, on bond oversight. And they showed some very good videos from other school districts that had problems and what they did to address them. Palo Alto Unified School District, and I know the trustee there who is the chair of the Bond Oversight Committee, and, and then also in South San Francisco, and they had big problems and do have big problems in San Francisco. So I think those stories are good and how they went about them. And the question is if you had these problems here, would we be able to identify them? Not, not accusing that there are these problems, but in case they would. So I think that video is quite instructive. My point being, I think it's really helpful to look at some— having a neutral person to train. And no disrespect to Mr. Niblin, but he represents the— it's, it's in the analogy I gave to, to Carl when I spoke with him earlier. It's like my niece, right? She's getting married, um, and she wants to have a prenuptial agreement, and she doesn't— even though she loves her husband-to-be, she's not going to have the same lawyer represent both of them. By law, and anybody knows this, when you have a prenup, you have to have separate lawyers, because so it's impartial, and the— there's no potential conflicts that come earlier. And as CBOC, I don't think you guys want to have the appearance of impropriety, which you do when you're using the district's counsel. I'm not saying they're— whether they do something right or wrong, it gives the appearance of impropriety, and you don't do it right. It's just like having a realtor that represents both sides, or like I said, a lawyer. So I really encourage you, and I, I vehemently disagree. And every attorney— 50% of attorneys are wrong on things, right? By definition, there's— Trump's attorney thinks he's doing a great job and he's a wonderful paragon of virtue from January 6th. Not everybody thinks that. So I think same with, same with respect to, um, you know, what John Niblin said. I don't agree. It's not but for— he's the but, you know, but for this we can spend— all these things you can spend just using the words but for. It does— it doesn't say that in a law anywhere. And so an example, one thing that I want to get into is with respect to— and the probably the biggest thing that's in Measure T report, and I can talk about it later, but is the administrator salaries provision. And I forwarded the attorney— you know, people hang on this Attorney General opinion saying, okay, we can spend it on administrator salaries if they do anything related to the bond. And if you read that opinion, which I forwarded to Cameron and Carl, and read it specifically. It's not just— it was— the AG was asked a very specific question, right? And it talks about the fact that if there is— and I don't have the language here, but it's— if there is a— if there— if it's cheaper to do out— outhouse— out of externally, then— or if it's cheaper— if it's— if it's more expensive to do— to hire somebody else, you can do it inside using your district personnel. But you can't do it both, right? And I'll pick an example of this most recent report. From the April to June report that was in the Google spreadsheet that Rick sent. Our GM Kramer, who's been paid well over $10 million to do bond program management— and no disrespect to Jim Kramer, I would want to do that too, you know— and, and they also donated to the campaign tens of thousands of dollars to this campaign, living in the East Bay, probably. Anyway, so they, they made $2.2 million just in the 3 months from April to June, and the district salaries were paid $2.4 million in that same time period. I don't know why there wasn't exactly— I assume it's for bond oversight. So why are we paying 2 people to do bond oversight? And I think, and maybe there's some assumptions, and I have something wrong, but that's what I saw on the spreadsheet. So that's an example. And I think Measure T has millions of dollars of district salaries to do bond management, and then there's a vendor paying north of $10 million to do management. So those are the kind of things I think that are not consistent with the legislative intent. And again, this is just an AG opinion, and even the opinion, I think, is— doesn't agree— wouldn't agree with that. So those are just— I mean, we have a lot of other examples I've talked about in the past, but I think the key point is get your own counsel. That way you look pure and you're— you avoid the appearance of impropriety. And I can give you names if you want. And don't use DWK and John Neblin because they have a different client— the client that you are overseeing. It's kind of common sense. But I, I don't— if you want to do oversight, um, that's the way to do it. If you don't and you want to just be— then, then we should— then I, I think there's a problem with it. And CBOC, obviously, whom John recommended, said, uh, says the same thing, right? Um, so anyway, that's it for now. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, anyone else? I don't see— I don't know if there's anyone on Zoom. Um, with a hand up. Rick, do you see anybody? No? Okay. All right, just to make sure everyone knows, we also invite public comment during agenda items. So if public wants to speak during any of the items, we always welcome that. Okay, so Item 4 is our invited guest presentation for this evening. Here, what we want to find out, and this was an agenda item requested from our last meeting, is now that we're transitioning from Measure T bond to Measure S, the CBOC was very interested to hear at the start of Measure S, what's the district's process for deciding projects, how they're vetted, approved, etc., as we'll be obviously providing oversight for those as they start to get underway. So Rick, I don't know who you have got presenting. Is it you, or— Yeah, it'll just be me talking about the paper that was passed out by Libby a few minutes ago. Thank you, Carl. Everyone here tonight. So regarding Measure S, just on this sheet, instead of trying to get everyone together, having a very long conversation, pretty detailed Can I pause you for one sec? I don't see a sheet. Am I— oh, there it is. Thank you. Uh, $298 million general obligation bond approved by voters in November of 2022. Uh, in June we sold Series A, uh, for $90 million of proceeds. Uh, to this point in time there's been no expenditures other than the closing costs of the GO bond sale. The bond sale closed on June 28th and was brought before the board at the August 13th— if I'm thinking that's correct— August 13th meeting. So now we're in the process of, as we've been talking about, ramping down as we start to expend our funds in Measure T, or expend all of our funds in Measure T, and starting to ramp up Measure S. Part of that, as we did with Measure T— I don't think you said a lot of things that I was looking at. As we did with Measure T, it is the selection of the bond program manager. RFP— an RFQ, request for qualifications and proposals, went out in August. We're currently in the process of that and have interviews this week for the firms that submitted responses to our request. We'll be going through that process, finalizing that, and bringing that back to the board, uh, either our next meeting on the 27th or the first meeting in October, depending on how a few things play out with our potential candidates for this purpose. So that's good news in terms of starting Measure S moving forward. And then once they're on board, that's when the rest of this list starts happening. We will be working with our bond program manager along with Dr. Baker, myself, Mr. Cervantes, and scheduling school site and community meetings to get input on their perceived and real needs at their school sites. So that we can use that information to go and review, review, and refine and revise as necessary the facilities Master Facilities Plan that was created in 2014, I believe, Tom? '14-'15? Yeah, '14-'15. Because as we know, times have changed, needs have changed, and everything that was relevant in 2015 may not be relevant today. So we'll take a look at that, make adjustments to the master plan, additions and subtractions as warranted through that. One of the questions that's come up, and it is on here, is equity objectives of the district. And I think it's important when we talk about equity with facilities, we have to take into a number of things, including the age of buildings, what condition they're in regardless of age, And then we also have to look at educational programs, right? So we might not do the same thing at every school site, but we will target the things that are important to that school site. And an example would be if there is a huge dance program or music program at one particular school site, but it doesn't exist at other school sites, they may receive something from that where the others won't. We, we had some discussions about this in the last couple of weeks. Including in Martin Bridge. So the story of during the 2003-04 bond program, school sites got multi-use buildings, with the exception of Hoover. So as part of the Measure T bond program, it was to bring that into equity with the rest of the district and bring an MUB to Hoover during that process. So what we'll be looking at as we evaluate those projects that were there from 2014-15, along with the input of our current school community, right, our parents and students and teachers that are there, along with our community members that, that wish to participate in this process to identify those items that are most important to them. At that point, we'll try and put that all together into some form of presentation that we'll have discussions in open session with the board about what was found through this process, what was added, subtracted, modified, if you will, from the facilities Master Facilities Plan based on current needs. And then we'll have discussions with them about what their priorities are for the projects that we're bringing forward from the facilities Master Facilities Plan and ultimately get their approval to start these projects in accordance with the timeline that will also be developed in coordination with the board. At that point, we'll start the process depending on what the project is, either going to design or to bidding, and then be able to start bringing back information on projects in place and moving forward with Measure S proceeds. So that's it in a nutshell. Are there questions about that? I have questions. So first, thank you for mentioning the equity objectives and the way that they're being factored in. Wasn't mentioned in there, but the equity policy of the district also defines what equity is for the district. So I'm sure that's on the radar of, of how you're doing that. But I'm glad to hear that that's being factored in on the front end. I appreciate that. I did have a question around, and I don't know if it's in the RFQ for a bond program manager, or if it's at the discussion of the board of prioritization. But if there's an effort to involve climate aspects in this round, and particularly, you know, I know a lot of the facilities, the new facilities were wired for solar, but it wasn't put in. We don't have air conditioning on the first floors, and our students are suffering, you know, forcing EV evolution at a rapid pace. So I'm just— I have 2 questions, but that was the first one is how to think about whether that's being factored in and where those questions should be being asked. Yeah, so I don't know if there's already internal conversations Okay, so it's not a factor in like the bond program manager qualifications to have them have expertise in that. Not per se that, because that would be something that, that along with them and the expertise that they do possess in that, that would also be brought in with our architects or other personnel that would be part of the project too moving forward. Okay, and then also in terms of the, the goal of this advisory committee, right, an oversight committee and looking at, at waste. I know we've talked previously about occupancy in different school sites and projections of occupancy. And, you know, facilities being underutilized in some of the newer builds, like particularly at Taft, and investments in then-closed schools. How should we be prepared to be thinking about that, and how, how will occupancy and forecasts of occupancy be factored in to spend? So we, for other reasons that will be utilized for the bond program as well, are going to go through the demographic study in addition to how we already get our demographic reports or demographic projections, uh, hopefully to tighten those up a little bit to get, uh, stronger projections in, in an area that unfortunately is heavily right now, uh, so that we can take that into account in planning, uh, along with the program managers, the teams that are looking at this, and with discussions with the community, uh, moving forward. You know, we see that in 3 years, many school sites have no students. Right? It might not be with the same effort. I don't understand why this is not an extreme example where other school sites won't work at CMS, at least based on the area rules, trying to factor that in as much as possible. Those are my questions. Thank you. Thank you for allowing my question. So thank you for the climate adaptation consideration, because I had actually was scribbling down. This may not come under this, this bond, and so I'm going to ask the question: is there any consideration given, or are there any dollars going towards safety and security for our school sites, or is that not considered in this bond measure, considering Yeah, some of that will come up during our process of talking with community members, school committee members, general community members, and we'll take that into consideration when looking what was already in the facilities master plan and what we're trying to accomplish and how that fits in. I know that during Measure T there was some security enhancements put in at all the school sites, uh, and we continue to look at, uh, ways of securing our schools. Uh, we have some small little projects going on right now at a couple of our sites to do that, to increase security. So that's always going to be part of the discussion. So does the district have to maintain the buildings that were closed during the consolidation? I'm just— I believe they are, because they're renting, for example, the old Orion campus. So does that— there was, uh, projects on the old Master Plan for that one to get enhancements? Do they still have to fill those, or can we kind of revamp those? That's, that's the only question. I know we have some— uh, you don't have to do the same things that we're doing at every site, but they are, uh, they do have, um, I can't think of the word, uh, but the school sites have to be maintained in the same manner that our other school sites are maintained, right? And these— there's that holds up all this, you know, like the technology, the building construction at those sites as well, um, just as we did the other sites, right? So if there was— if there's room for work or there was previous work that needed to be done at that site, we still have to be committed to do it because again the district owns the facility still, correct? Yeah, we— yeah, if we had to replace roofs at that site or, or something like that, we would still, uh, need to do that, but we're going to have to build like a multi-use building. Okay, okay, great. Thank you. 2 questions. One, I'm just curious what has been done previously in design for the Measure S items. I know there's renderings and like a general site plan, but is that it, or are there conceptual drawings, anything else to that extent? Not to my— not to my knowledge, but I don't know, Martin or Will, do you have information on that question? You said Measure S, you meant Measure T? I'm— well, for future work. Future work. Was there any future work design completed? Uh, part of just Measure T program? Uh, no. To fulfill the future projects. I know, like, there's renderings kind of saying, like, what— I mean, that's all going to change now that everything's been being reevaluated. And there, to my knowledge, there's no design or renderings or anything, uh, like or Measure S only for— Okay. Just the Master Plan is basically where it was. Yeah. Yeah, back in 2014. Okay. Yeah, top-level timeline. Okay. And then is there— this is a hard one— an estimate of, like, milestone timeline for the Measure S design to construction? That'll be once we identify projects and prioritize them, and then we'll have timelines for construction and— No. Few questions. Um, what's the timeline on the items that you have on the sheet, Rick? Um, for example, getting to board approval, is that something you want to do in 2 months or 2 years, or— well, hopefully it's not 2 years. Uh, first we have to get through the selection of the bond program and our uh, which I expect to, uh, happen in October, uh, hopefully the first meeting, uh, of the board, if not the last meeting of September. Uh, at that point we will, um, start the process of determining when and where the meetings will be held. Uh, I mean, just roughly, do you think this is 6 months of work here to get to board approval of the first tranche? Sure. At least some projects, maybe not the whole— Sure. —but, you know, those projects. Is there a formal process— maybe this is a Dr. Baker question— for soliciting input from the schools? For example, will the site councils be chartered with collecting feedback at a school site, prioritizing that, and making a proposal back? Or how do you envision each school coming up with their priority list. The last go-round, what we did was we, we have a plan, we have plans, and they were created, I think the approval was on '15, if I'm not mistaken, 2015, the 2014-15 school year, um, with Miss Christensen. Um, we did go out to school sites, we met with school site council and PTOs or PTAs and there were community members that also came in to look at those plans that were created prior to us going out for any type of bond. Some schools came back and said, you know, and communities, this was not going to work for them. And this was all done prior with a survey and comments that were given to the team. This boardroom was full several meetings of parents, community members putting dots in different places of Post-its that we had up on the walls of what needed to be done. And after that was created, it went back to school sites and still the school site community changed things to this point. Now with the facilities Master Facilities Plan where it is, say it's, it's 10 years old, we really need to look at that. And, and Rick and I have been talking about it. The board we've been talking about it all. So these meetings are going to take anywhere from 4 to 6 months to get that portion done and get it done where everyone feels that they've been heard. Definitely we're not going to be able to do everything that everybody wants, but there's definitely a tune out in the community of what a lot of people are hopeful for. So We are going to provide those meetings with each school community. We hope the school site council, PTAs, PTOs be very much involved in the school community, and we will have them done in the 4- to 6-month period. I have no doubt you'll get a lot of feedback and requests. But now it's update. Yes, and I'm sure, and if you want to look at it, is it still, is it still alive? Or it's— I know I've distributed it to the CBOC. I don't— I, I've asked for it to be put on the website, but, um, I don't know that it ever got there. I think it used to be there and then it disappeared for a while. Um, maybe now it's— maybe it should get there because people are going to want to start looking at it again. In preparation to see what was, what was talked about 8 or 10 years ago. My next question is about— I imagine what'll happen is you'll, if you have $80 million to spend, you'll have $400 million in requests. So could you talk a bit about what the board prioritization process, how is that going to work to winnow down the list to what fits into the budget? I don't know who's best prepared to speak to that. I'll start. Okay. Yeah, I, I— what, uh, what I suspect will happen, Carl, and the rest of the committee, is as we get this information, uh, working alongside, uh, our bond program manager, uh, we'll develop a, a rubric, if you will, for prioritization of projects to help make the decisions by the board easier to give them some additional input on that. Uh, obviously, as Janice said earlier, safety and security is one. Uh, indoor environmentals are, are going to be huge. We know we're going to hear a lot about that. Um, so taking that into, uh, consideration with some of the other pressing needs that have either been identified or will be identified through this process, uh, will work, uh, at that point, uh, with our RCSD design team, uh, to prepare to talk to the board, um, to help, uh, with the conversation, not to determine priorities but help the conversation around here's where some of our needs are, uh, here's what buckets they fall into, either safety and security, environmental, uh, and then from there I'm sure there'll be lengthy discussions about where does that fit into the big scheme of the bond program, and then how do we look at that across different series, right? So there may be things then where we say yes, it needs to be done as a priority, but maybe not until series B comes out, right? Those are some of the discussions we'll have as well. I had a question about that. Is after the award for the project or program management, will they engage any type of like planning consultant or anything to help with facilitate this decision-making. Yeah, this, this is a very complicated process where, yeah, having that outreach and having someone to manage that outreach would be strongly recommended. I think Walk Bike Thrive was a Redwood City initiative that they did about a year ago. That was, that was really well done and engaged the community in both public settings, but also in electronic ways, so that anyone who could not go to a meeting could still, uh, offer their opinion. Thanks. Are, are, um, as you know, we, we had a lot of charters move in. Are they entitled to any of this funding? Uh, to the same, to the same as we've talked about. They're not entitled to it by vote, but we have to keep the, uh, buildings, uh, in the same manner equitable amongst campuses. Do their boards, or do their schools, particular schools, do they, they have site council, I'm assuming, as well? Do they have— so they do have say into how the funds will be supported in their facilities? I mean, I, I'm just wondering, based on the funding for charters and how it works, that's pretty complicated. I don't understand all how the funding works, so that's my— I'm just wondering if they get access to— I, I don't, uh, they won't have access to a pot of money where they get to distributed how they see fit. We'll, we'll make attempts at outreach, right, to make sure that we are addressing needs, uh, that would make them comparable to other school sites, right? Okay. The ones that, that we're, uh, dealing with right now, more in closed charter, is, uh, some safety and security issues, sure, hot water, you know, that type of— okay, hot water. Who needs hot water? Do the charters get their own funding from any other sources? Or thank you. Yeah, so just to follow up on that, for the charters and the ones where the district is basically a landlord, like a rented out, I, I heard in both questions that were asked you said keep it equitable, that kind of phrasing. Is that by law or by contract, that requirement? Okay, even in the landlord situations? Yes, because there are our facilities and the charter schools are giving them for pennies on the dollar based on California RCSD. But isn't there a private school too? There are a few, uh, that have rented portions of it. We would be looking at RCSD. I'm sorry, I need clarification on that last statement. So you— I didn't quite understand what that last— when you said we'll be looking at our portion of it? Are there private schools that, that share? The private schools that share do not have the same entitlement as a charter school. And they share the same space, the same building, same spaces on— on same campus, but we're still responsible for the upkeep of the building entirely, correct? Okay, so they still would benefit from repairs within— if we may repairs— if we may repairs. Okay, okay. But, but the Master Plan can be re-reviewed if the charter school moved in prior to 2014. We do not have to stick to what the client stated before, correct? Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Any public comment or questions? Yeah, I just had one question that I don't know if I can ask it through you, but, um, I, I saw this on a letter that somebody else sent that I did— I don't know, um, to the trustees, I believe. And that's, you know, when you are— I know that there's a multi-phase approach. So there was Measure S, and then there's going to be S+ or whatever— not T, no, not T, they already did that— next one. And so I'm— when they go through the prioritization process, I would think maybe the CBOC might want to know, are you assuming, you know, you might stage the project such that you're in— you're, you're assuming you're going to get the next bond passed, for example, right? And the person that wrote in said, you know, Parcel taxes, which I am for on the record. Okay, because I think they actually help, uh, and the, uh, with school reduction. And I would never oppose the parcel tax. I'm on the record now. Okay, so because they help students, unlike bonds. So, um, but if the, the person wrote in and said that, um, you know, she hopes that we don't do another bond because it would preclude the vote of a parcel tax. And hopefully the parcel tax and a bond will be the same approval threshold someday before we all die. But So my, my point being, when you're planning on the bond, do you assume you're going to get the next bond, or do you just assume you get one? Because I know, like, Sequoia, for example, didn't do air conditioning because they thought it would be with the next— you know, they did something else first, and the sequencing of and prioritization was kind of screwy with that one. Well, that's probably anyway tangent, but so that's my question. So does that make sense? Yeah, thank you. Just one other thing, and then we can move on. But I know there was a presentation last night to the trustees about enrollment. Can you give a quick overview about what the forecasted enrollment trend looks like for the district over the next few years? Was that something that was presented last night? I, I didn't see it. So, yeah, not so much a full trend, but we are still are in declining enrollment. We're a little bit— we're below last— we're actually pretty close to even last year. We've only lost a few students in totality versus next year. First week in October is our day-to-day, really finalizing this year. We have a few more students than we even presented last night according to the searching program. But we are projecting down. For the next 4 years, uh, upwards of 550 students as of right now. Out of a total of 6— 6293, I think. Okay. Is that charter schools or no? Yeah, no charter schools. Okay, so some of that could be affecting going to charter school. It could be probably within the same— looks like All right. Thank you very much, Rick, for preparing that. I think you have good questions there on an important topic and getting the timeline just so this committee is aware of the pace at which this is going to move is very helpful. So we're going to move now into Section 5. This is the action item section where we're going to be taking— as a committee, we're going to be taking action on these items. And so Let's jump right in. The first one, 5.1, is to approve the meeting minutes from our May meeting, and those were sent out in advance, and I see we have copies as well. So do we have a motion on a minutes approval? So moved. A second. Second. Any discussion on the minutes from last time? Comments, changes? Okay, not hearing any. Then, uh, all in favor of approving last meeting's minutes? Aye. Any opposed? Abstentions? Okay, great. All right, 5.2, one of our key responsibilities is producing an annual report from our oversight and getting that out to taxpayers. So you all received in advance a copy of the draft annual report. This is for the fiscal year '21-'22 period, and you can see right on the COVID page in the lower left who were the members of the CBOC committee during that period of oversight. So not everyone here was a member of the committee during that time, and people who were on the committee are no longer here. So just want to call attention to that. With that, I'll open up any discussion on the draft annual report. And thank Olivia for the beautiful job of producing it. I love the staples on the side. Very nice. Will this report be available online also? Yes, yes, it gets posted to the, the district website. Yeah, and you're welcome, of course, to go back and read all the previous ones at your leisure. And I just want to say thank you to Jen, who reviewed the report after I wrote it, caught some obvious mistakes, and I'm surprised no one here has caught any others. I did have, just from my own review, a couple of things that I wanted to suggest changing. If nobody else has something, I think page— are there page numbers? Not really. Let's see, where is this introduction? So right below the table here, I guess it's the first interior page in the introduction, that last paragraph before it says about Measure T. The last sentence says, we welcome input from the community and taxpayers and look forward to sharing updates on the wise investments being made in our schools. I'd like to strike the word wise. It's not really factual. Who knows if they're wise or not wise? I don't think it's for us to determine if they're wise or not wise. So I'd like to strike that word from the final version. And then there was one other thing. Um, let's see, financial summary. So on the next page, um, this is in the Bond Spending and Oversight So it starts at the bottom of that same page. But on the next page it says in the last sentence, finally, the CBOC meets quarterly to review bond project progress, blah, blah, blah, blah. We didn't actually meet quarterly in this fiscal year because the 4th meeting was canceled. So my suggested change is that it say the CBOC schedules meetings quarterly to review bond, blah, blah, blah. Which is more factually correct because it— we didn't actually meet quarterly. That was all I had from my review. Anybody else have any other? So I would edit your edit. Okay, great. Just meets regularly. I just take out the temporal phrase because the committee has been in existence and meeting on a regular basis. Um, so quarterly goes to regularly. Yeah, it says quarterly, uh, previously as well. I think in the first letter— yeah, um, on the first page, all work of the CBOC and the public meetings are held quarterly. That one you might want to say scheduled quarterly. Okay. Instead of held, if we're to be consistent there. Yes. And then you're just missing period. In the paragraph above your wise edit, the wise edit, and it's missing a period. Got that one. Okay, thank you. Okay, any other, uh, suggestions, public comment on the annual report? Okay, so I've watched every board meeting and every CBOC meeting for the last year, since, since August last year. So it is my opinion that, um, there is— first of all, I think you should just state how many times they met. Forget about what it's— how many— I think the taxpayers want to know how many times did you actually meet. You're look— you're looking backwards. You met 3 times. Right? That to me is— it's not regularly. It's— you guys want to be as straightforward and transparent to the taxpayers, it's your— your repres— who you're serving, not the district, the taxpayers, as possible. Um, so that would be my suggestion on that minor edit. But the big issue that I— and I know you're not going to accept this, but I believe this is not compliant with Prop 39 for the reasons I mentioned. And the, uh, the auditor relies on the district's counsel, and you're relying on the district's counsel, but there hasn't been an independent view. And I I think pretty clearly Prop 39 has, has been violated with respect to, uh, salaries, administrator salaries, which is millions of dollars. We're not talking— forget about the gate and the other ones. We can argue those are small dollars and buying iPads and bottled water and all that other stuff, which is illegal, but it's small dollars. But the big one is administrator salaries. Um, so I'm just going to state that for the record, and, um, I think it's, uh, misleading or fraudulent to state otherwise. Um, I think the statement about our oversight includes auditing projects. I don't I don't know if— I mean, you— I don't think most of you were here for this because this is more than a year, a year ago. This is 2021-22. I don't know if the CBOC audited projects. I haven't seen auditing projects since I've watched, which I know has been the following year. Um, and I think the other, um, yeah, I think that's the— oh, and then I think this is also giving a false sense of security, and I won't go into detail, but I But the statement here that says our oversight provides an extra layer of protection beyond the district administration and Board of Trustees to allow taxpayers to feel confident in how the millions of your dollars are being spent. I think that's also a very— it's, it's an assertion that, well, you weren't here for one, and I don't think— I have never seen in any trustee meeting a discussion of any bond item. It's all on consent. It's never discussed. It just gets passed. So I don't believe that the Board of Trustees unless they're doing things in the dark, which is another issue. I, I don't know that there is any— this— I don't know what degree of, of protection there is at the trustee level. And I have never seen any pushback from this, what the superintendent wants to do at the trustee level. And, and then CBOC, I mean, we know you just— I, I don't know how much scrutiny there was by the last one either. So in terms— I know there's just recently been starting to review expenditures. I don't know if the last CBOC did any review of expenditures. So I personally, and I, like I said, I was a CFO. So I mean, I know what audits look like, and I, I don't— you're relying on a lot of other people. It's kind of like a circular firing squad. Everybody's relying on somebody else. I don't know. I don't personally feel confident, and that's a pretty strong statement, especially when you guys weren't involved and you have your name associated with it. So that's my feedback. Thank you. Any further discussion? Here. Uh, yeah, I was just going to note for the public, in case they are interested, that each of the meetings in the term of the report are listed by date and what was covered, so that when the specific meetings happened is, is available in the report. So comment regarding a comment that was just made, uh, regarding a fraudulent action I take that pretty serious when I'm on a board or committee, and I, I find that a little concerning. So how, how we move forward with that conversation, I think, would behoove us all. I just, I don't know if the comments by the speaker were in fact factual, because I'm, I'm new to this. But when a order committee or oversight has had the word fraud attached to it, I, I get concerned for everyone in this room. So how we move forward with that conversation would, would be maybe an agenda item at some point, not necessarily tonight, but something I feel we could address. Thank you. Other comments? Okay, is there a motion to approve the report, uh, this evening? I'll move it. Is there a second? I second. Okay, sorry, you talked about a couple edits you want me to do. Is the motion— I'm sorry, thank you, thank you for clarifying that. So the motion is to approve the report as edited this evening, uh, and I have the copy here which I can share with Olivia with the, the, those edits. Um, so yeah, thank you for that clarification. Are you still— I will amend my motion to include the edits in, in this report. Thank you. Do we have a second? Second? Okay, all in favor of approving the report as amended this evening in the meeting, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstaining? Okay, report approved as amended. So what'll happen now is we'll make those corrections, and then it'll get posted to the website. And we can start working on the next annual report. Speaking of which, do you have a timeline, Rick, for the audits for this fiscal year that just closed in end of June? I would say about the end of February. End of February. Okay. All right. We're moving into 5.3 now. So in our bylaws, the chair and vice chair need to be voted on each year. So we have again tonight the election of the chair, 531, and the vice chair, 532. Um, so I guess the— we need a nomination or nominations for the chair. Anybody want to make a— I nominate Carl Anders. You sure? Would anyone else like to nominate themselves for chair. Jen, you've been acting as vice chair. Uh, are you ready to step up? And I, I think you've got a great position there, Carl, so I'm happy. Okay, so is there a motion to, uh, continue Carl Landers as the chair? So moved. And not to continue, but to elect— to elect— for this term. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Can I vote for myself? Yeah. Okay, great. Any opposed? All right, same process now. Do we have any nominations for the vice chair position? Nominate Jen Givens for vice chair. Okay, any other nominations? Jen, are you willing to serve? Yes. Awesome. Okay, is there a motion to elect, uh, Jen Givens as vice chair? So moved. Second. Second. And all in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Abstain? Okay. Thank you, Jen, for continuing your service. Yeah. Uh, that moves us into item 6. So, uh, these are our informational and discussion items, no action. Is required on these, and we do take public comment on these as we go through as well. So the first one is 6.1, Progress Report on Bond Construction Projects. Usually, Will, this is your, your time to— is— are you prepared to speak to this this evening? Okay, great. Yeah, so we recently obtained the RCSD certification on our completed, uh, new construction, two-story classroom building modernization project at TAP, and, um, more recently, the Orion Alternative school sites. Um, we're still completing final punch list items and working towards DSA certification, uh, for the Garfield new two-story classroom building inside modernization project. We are still working through punch list items and towards completion of the district-wide EMF, uh, energy management system and building management system, along with a new security camera and treatment system with Siemens. And I have construction So this is the completed Selby STEAM classroom. Next slide. A photo of the completed Garfield new 2-story classroom building. As I mentioned, we're still working through punch list items, one of them being right in the front of the library. Outside the windows you can see the green rectangular structures. The sunshade panels were an extremely long lead time, material lead time item that was impacted by COVID. That's the last item that we have to finish at this site before the project is complete. You can also see in the back the new parking lot and the recent field restoration, the new sod, fresh green within the orange fencing. Next slide. Better photo of the sod replacement. Next slide, slide. Uh, this is a photo of the Henry— the completed Henry Ford Outdoor Classroom. Uh, this was a summer project. Next slide. Another angle. And another angle. Um, this is the Henry Ford MUB in-wall folding table and bench replacement. So you can see the folding tables and benches are down and displayed as completed. This was a safety project. It was completed over the summer. Uh, this is the Kennedy— completed Kennedy STEAM classroom. Another angle. And a photo of the completed Orion Alternative School, uh, new two-story classroom building, lunch shelter, and site work. Another angle. So up front, uh, that is the admin— new admin portion of the new two-story classroom building at Orion Alternative, and the new drop-off. Taft School field restorations, new sod, and that area, uh, in the middle, the small brown spot, has been fixed since this photo— drone photo was taken. And the Taft new outdoor classroom which recently had redwood log benches, benches added in the empty area in the center. And these plants have, have seen significant growth since this photo was taken. Okay, great. Thank you. Any questions? Sure, the answer is yes to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Are all of the, um, the additions or construction done to ADA, um, requirements for students that have special needs? Yes, they are. Uh, all of, all of the work, uh, all of the projects that we do go through the Division of the State Architect, and they require ADA upgrades ADA upgrades were included at, I believe, I believe every, every campus that we did construction. And that would include some of the lunch benches where they can slide up if they have a wheelchair need. So I'm, I'm— yeah, actually, Henry Ford, I think we showed a photo of like the— so at Henry Ford we did an outdoor classroom, so one of the tables is missing the bench so that the wheelchair can roll up. Wheelchair spaces. Yeah, that's taken into account on all projects. Any other questions? Your showing of the sod replacement prompted me to ask if any of the schools are connected to the Redwood City recycled water system yet, or is, or is that no? I don't know the answer to that question. None. Okay. All right. You're asking for irrigation? Yeah, yeah, not for teeth brushing, no. There is a— okay. All right, anything else, uh, for Will on the update? Thank you, Will, appreciate it. Uh, okay, let's move into 6.2 then, which is our bond activity since our last meeting in May. And we've got several different, um, reports that were distributed in advance to look at. So the first one is the Excel spreadsheet, which lists— although I think we asked Rick just for the— since the last meeting, I think this is all of last fiscal year in the spreadsheet, if I understand it correctly. Because the spreadsheet starts on 621. April 1st through June 30th. Okay, so it starts on July 1st, 2022, and goes through June, which is fine. I mean, you gave us the whole fiscal year. If you unfilter it all, it's, it's all, it's all in there. But you can— I think it was delivered to us, maybe filtered just for the, the Q4 or the Yeah, does anyone on the committee have any questions on the detailed listing of bond program expenditures in the April-June timeframe? Can you clarify what sheet that is? Oh. Sure, it's not printed out because it's an Excel spreadsheet that's very long, and it— so it was sent as part of the package from Olivia. So this is the one time when you need your laptop, or if you've made comments. But yeah, so it's, it's an extensive spreadsheet that lists every bond expense item. Can we present? I'm sure we can present it. I'm— yeah, Rick's probably got it there. Did you have some questions about Okay, sorry, I should have clarified. It's that Excel spreadsheet that's got— here you go, line by line. And we did get it last— we asked for this the last meeting. We did get it. I think it was a PDF. And so the request to the district was to supply it as an Excel spreadsheet so people could sort it and filter it, or however you wanted. So thank you, Rick and team, for providing it that way. So this is not change work. This is— No, this is just line by line, every expense. One question I had— so I looked at— not to pick on you, Will, but for RGMK, if I look at the expenses charged there. So it's the only category in the sheet where the number went up for Q4. Everything else is going down because the projects are finishing, things are wrapping up. I get that. But the RGEMK expense in Q4— I don't know if you use quarterly term, but the April-June period was twice— $650K— twice what it was in the previous 3 months, $300K. Can you explain why, with all the projects going down and finishing, why the project management expense would double in that period? I don't know if it's easy for you to show it, but I, I sorted it here and have it on my screen, and would be happy to present it or send it to someone, or— I'm with me. 324. Um, so yeah, go ahead, Will. Our billing each month should have maintained— should have been similar. There were a couple months that we underbilled. We transitioned— our company got acquired by a new company, and we transitioned to their new billing system, and they were underbilling and we did a true-up one month. So that might have been the month that you were seeing that. Rick Martin, is that the, is that the month that they're looking at? Correct. Okay. Yeah, so we had billed at the— our company mistakenly billed our services at 50% of what they should have been for a couple months, uh, the first two months that we— I think it was 2 or 3 months, the first, uh, couple months that we, uh, were working with the new company we got acquired by on our invoicing. We caught the error, uh, discussed it with the district and trued that up on one invoice. So that's likely what you're seeing because our services have remained, uh, similar, uh, you know, month by month. Our services actually decreased over our, our monthly invoices decreased at the end of the fiscal year over summer. But I think you guys are— you guys are looking at the end of last year. Rick, I just sent you a screenshot of how I summarized it. If you're able to project that, it might make it easier to see, um, if that's if you're able to get it out of your email. What I did, Will and Rick, is I just looked at the top 10 vendors over the course of the year. You are the number one. RGMK is the largest. So when Rick displays this, you'll see the row for, for RGMK at the top of this table, and then it's broken out by the 4 quarters of the year. So, um, there you go. So you can see, um, Q4 there was double the Q3 number, which was half the Q2 number. So you can see there's— I mean, it's up and down, it's all over the place, kind of. And I was just curious, yeah, if that's an accounting thing or if really your services doubled in the end of last fiscal year. Our services did not double. It was an accounting error that we caught and corrected that's, that's making it look that way. So it essentially should be the same amount every month, or does it— has it been declining last, uh, fiscal year as the projects wrap up? So we had— so this is 20— this is— this is okay. Q— when you were— when we're doing Q1, Q2, Q2 Q3. This is a calendar year, fiscal year, fiscal year. So, so you have July, August, September, then you have October, November, December, etc. So that Q4 would be the period that— of interest to this meeting, which was the April, May, June period. Yes, that was when we— that was when, when that clerical error was caught and, and trued up. I'm, I'm looking at the past, and then these past years changing, we had team, actual team member, um, and partnership changes earlier on. We were partnered with another company, um, and had other team members on board. Uh, they dropped off, and I'm, I'm just— I'm having trouble aligning the, you know, the specific dates. Um, but once, once our GMK was under contract and had removed the other team members, our services should have remained, uh, similar month by month. And I believe that that was the start of Q3, if I'm reading this right. So the start of Q3 would be January of this calendar year. Okay, yeah, I'm going to need to look at this, um, and make sure that I understand it and I'm accurately responding to you. But we can study this and we can get back to you via email. I guess my bigger question is, is, are the expenses to RGMK going down as projects wrap up, or is it staying at whatever a contractual level was, even as the, presumably, the amount of work decreases as we, as you clean up, finish up all these projects? Um, yeah, so we are not on a fixed— we're not on a fixed fee. We're— so our, uh, invoices have been decreasing over the summer. They were decreasing, um, because we were working on— certain team members were working on, you know, other projects for other districts, um, and will continue to decrease as, uh, you know, as projects and efforts decrease. Uh, we are still working on the closeout of the program and completion of construction projects. And there's approximately $1 million left in contingency, um, now that we've kind of shaved all the dollars and pennies of contingency off of all the other projects that we're going to be discussing with the board how to spend down, uh, very soon. So there might be a slight ramp up, uh, depending on what kind of pro— what kind of projects and efforts are needed, uh, for that additional spend down. Uh, but yeah, for now, our, uh, our services and costs have been decreasing recently. Okay, thank you. Yep. So I guess the question to the district is, are you comfortable that you're paying for what you're getting with our GMK? And how much do you expect to pay in program management fees for that million dollars of bond money that's left? It would depend on the projects we've selected and the scope of work the project manager would have to do, so I can't say what my limitation is. I'm not selecting projects, but we are confident at this rate that we are getting true value out of the RCSD relationship. We also— I, I also do want to mention that We're talking about our program management services agreement. Um, we also had separate construction management agreements that were likely coming into play in these past quarters if you're looking at us as a vendor in a whole, which could create spikes and dips. Um, and currently we— well, we have just the Garfield project as our final project to close out the CM agreement. And our intent is to try to handle all remaining construction project efforts managed under the program management agreement without having to, you know, initiate new construction management agreements, if that makes sense to you. So thank you. Is it all done on a P&I basis then? Is it all done on a P&I basis? Well, currently, yeah, we've been billing hourly. As I mentioned, you know, over the summer, because the efforts have decreased, we picked up, you know, a couple other projects, small projects at other districts, and had certain team members working on those. So there was a dip there. So yeah, we've been billing hourly. I probably should have asked this earlier, but is there a date that you expect to be completely done with Measure T projects? My goal is— okay, so this could continue through June, uh, spending the— did you say there was $1 million left to spend? Yes. Okay. Yeah, the intent is to spend it down and close the program out by the end of the current fiscal year, uh, if at all possible. Any other questions on the Detailed spreadsheet. Any public comment on it? Um, yeah, just had a— so I just looked back at a December board meeting. So just as a reference point, um, the board of course approved, uh, a fee schedule for program management services of $802,260 for a 6-month period. So that's just the program management fee for RGM Kramer. And then the other data point— so that's, you know, roughly $800,000 for a 6-month period. And I believe the spreadsheet that Carl— we looked at that for the period ending all through Measure T, all the way through end of December last year, had $8.1 million paid to RGM Kramer. I don't know if that sounds about right. But that's for one year for— no, for the whole Measure T. I guess that would be the 7-year, about $8.1 million just to Is that— that's what that— that's what that said, that spreadsheet. So just as a reference point. And then, then there's the administrator salaries that the district is also paid out of bond money. So, okay, um, thank you for your comment. And that was 621. Um, so 622 then is the contractor change orders approved since the last meeting. Um, and so that's probably in here too. There it is. Any comments or questions about, um, this report? Did we get a brief description of the 4 change orders? I would need to get back to you on that. Um, but I can send you an email Send you guys an email update. These are the big projects though, right? The Taft, Orion, Garfield. Yes, they are. Yeah, these, these should be the, like, the final change orders for, for these projects. I just don't have the PCO numbers and associated scope memorized. Any other questions on this? Thanks for providing it. I did go back and look at the minutes from the last meeting, Rick, and Carolyn requested that we have a column on here that shows the percentage of the contract cost that the change order represents. And then I had had a request that we also show the percentage of the project cost, because that contract may be with one contractor. That's not the total project cost. So just for the next version of this, for our next meeting, if you could add those two columns in, that would be super helpful. Helpful. Okay, any other, um, questions on 622? Okay. Oh, hey, sorry, Carl. Um, I, I think, you know, for future meetings, we, um— I imagine that the school board or the trustees are actually presented with descriptions of these change orders. When they're approving them. Um, we should receive that as well, because, uh, to see a, a table of change orders with no context is very difficult. Um, so, um, in the future, we'll— thanks. What does the— what do the trustees see around change orders? Is it the same? Is there a description of each change order when it's approved by the trustees, or is it more of a list like this? Okay, for each change order. Okay, and so Carl, your request is, can that be summarized in this report, the same information essentially trustees saw? Just an attachment. Um, be something that has narrative. Yeah, yeah, not really trying to generate more work, but whatever that attachment was that is included in the, the trustee— for the trustees would work for this. Okay, we, we can do that, and I'll come prepared to speak to it with any additional detail needed. Thank you. No problem. Okay, anything else on that one? Okay, 623 is the no-bid contract list executed by the district since our last meeting. 623. Just as a reminder, because this was clarified last time, I think you asked the question, Cameron. No-bid contracts are up to $60K in spend. Is that right, Rick? Just— that's what qualifies something to be on this list, uh, generally. And then it's also, uh, for some segments, will be up to $67,000. Yeah, they're, uh, for, uh, well, they're, uh, you're talking piggyback type, like CMAS and other, uh, piggyback type agreements can go, uh, past $60K. And those are normally based off of, you know, bid, a bid, an official bid effort that's happened like at a different school or a different site. Yeah. So that raised a follow-up. Thank you for flagging that, because I had the same logic looking into this, and I looked at 623 and 624 and was trying to reconcile the board approving a final project of one play structure. For $180,000, and then that going out as two separate play structures for under that $107,000 amount in the no-bid, and was trying to understand how to follow that with what I understood from what— how the district had explained no-bid contracts. Yes, so, and my apologies, uh, this sheet, the 6.2.4 that's in— that was originally in the packet Yeah, was the April approval of new project budgets. And so we thought that you were asking for, uh, board— when we do budget update presentations, uh, if there is any funding remaining in the board reserve, uh, that we are comfortable committing to future projects. We'll have discussions on future projects and the board will approve you know, future or final projects. And so this is the list that was board approved. So these are budgetary numbers, and you can see that the two items on the no-bid list, uh, under Roosevelt play structures are the actual costs and were handled via piggyback type agreements with Park Planet. And I'm— and you can see that the combination of those two actual costs is below the estimated budgetary cost. Okay, so explain the piggyback thing to me then, because what is the actual limit on what a no-bid contract can max out at? So if it is a, a piggybackable contract, the limits are not really the same, right? So if it's been prebid and designated as piggyback, then we can have a board action that says we go and buy all this playground equipment, even if it were $300,000. We can do that because it was competitively bid, the same ways that we use national contracts, uh, PEPA, WSCA— I don't know if WSCA's still around— but CMAS, uh, California Multiple Award Schedule. Those have all been competitively bid, and we can use those, uh, with board approval to purchase goods and Okay, so help me on this one though, because I'm trying to understand. So prospectively, in April, the board approved one play structure with a budget of $180,000, but then it went out as two separate no-bid contracts that bring it down. So they're both under $100,000. Yeah. They appear to be on different parts of the campus. I can try, I can try to explain that. So at the budget update presentation, the board approved a budgetary number for play structures at Roosevelt of $180,000. We then worked with the play structure vendor to identify— we thought that was only going to be one large play structure. We were actually able to accomplish two play structures, one large and one small, within that budgetary number. So we then developed the, you know, cost— got the proposals from the vendors, brought those back to the board with actual costs. The two numbers that you're seeing that are within the approved budget, and the board then approved the actual proposal— construction proposals to proceed at the, at the cost you see on the no-bid contract sheet. So these were just budgetary numbers that were approved— approved budgets for the projects. The no-bid contract shows the actual cost that was approved to proceed with construction. If you were going to buy a $180,000 play structure, would you need to go out for competitive bidding? It depends. Depends if there's a play structure or a company that has, uh, part of the contract with such a CBOC, the Multiple Award Schedule, uh, it's already been bid and negotiated. Uh, we can take a advantage of our school district? Most play— most play structure, lunch shelter, you know, furniture type vendors, uh, have some sort of piggyback type agreement that you can take advantage of. Um, for something like, you know, building a new parking lot or walkway, you know, that hasn't been done before and is custom you know, requested by the district, that would need to be bid out if it was over $60,000. So you can go above the $60,000 bid threshold, um, using a piggyback agreement if, if another district has already bid out like that exact piece of play structure equipment, um, previously. So it's part of the California Contracting Code. So you use comp pricing? What's that? You use comparable pricing, basically? Yes. Yeah, yep. The piggyback agreements, yeah, use comparable pricing for, you know, all of the materials, um, you know. And then I believe, I believe that they use like unit pricing for, you know, any of the site work associated, etc. In the contracts, that's seemingly oftentimes— like CMAS, right? The CMAS price for a router is $10,000 and you negotiate it down to $7,000. This simply sets the ceiling on that. But the price is set, so you can't go above and beyond. So, right, they, they— all vendors have to either sell it at that same price or they don't— or more or less. Yeah, correct. They can do competitive bidding to beat, but they still have to sell it. The district could still, you know, go out to bid, um, you know, for, for certain things that fall within that, but it's in their, you know, if, if, if someone else has already set that lower ceiling like Rick mentioned, uh, the district can take advantage of that, expedite the process. If it goes out to RFP or for bidding, it just increases is the time for projects, so it can get quite cumbersome because then they have to wait for multiple bids to come in. Is your mic on there, uh, J— Paul? I just want to make sure people can hear you later. What I was saying, it just would have— it would be very time-consuming to go to bid because then everybody has to wait. Okay. I think this is more of a comment and less of a question, but if there's an answer, happy to hear it. I would just say that As a, as a layman understanding this, I either have to assume that we were wildly off with our estimate of a single play structure, which makes me question kind of like the expertise of knowing what we're getting here paying for, or it's— it just looks like at the front end we should have asked for 2, because we came out spending the amount that was budgeted for 2. But it went through this kind of circular process, not this specific you know, one to call out in any specific way, but it, it does raise a variety of questions for me when I look at it. Sure. So, um, if you, if you can see on the sheet, it says that $180,000 is a high-level estimate based off of similar project costs that we had seen previously and executed, uh, here for Redwood City School District. Um, we put, I think it was 5 different play structure vendors up against each other. Competitively, and one of the vendors came in lower than the others and was able to squeeze a very small— these aren't two large play structures, it's one large one and then one small TK structure within like a 10-foot by 10-foot structure area with some sand removal. So it was, yeah, it was It was great that they were able to accomplish that additional small play structure within the budget, and we celebrated that. So it's an outlier vendor. What's that? Outlier vendor bid that— It was a bid that— no, we asked for competitive, uh, uh, we asked for different proposals from different vendors. So different vendors can take advantage of different, uh, you know, piggyback type options that they have offered. I mean, different vendors offer different structure, brands, types, etc. So, so for CMS example, being that multiple vendors can be piggybacked on that CMS contract, so if you have Playground Structures and Play World Structures, both can bid or piggyback off the same contract to submit. They can still choose the lowest bid or whoever fits what their— the the district's needs are best. What I think Cameron's concern is, you're worried about the split between the two funding sources, right? It, it— yeah, it shows up as being kind of inappropriate in the sense that you look like you're hiding what allocated funds are in terms of budget approval versus what you— what the vendor might have provided. Vendors do provide, like, any, any vendor really will provide add-ons, or they'll break, typically, a quote out for that same reason. Or in this case, they're able to get an enhancement so that the, the district's able to take advantage of that for what the approved budget was. And for an example, like, one vendor might be— might only offer, like, their— they might be the manufacturer and only offer one brand of play structure equipment, so they provide one structure. Uh, another vendor might have access to multiple different brands of play structures, and so, um, all of the vendors were not proposing the exact same brand, uh, and structure model. Um, they were all just fitting within the, the space and proposing, you know, the best option basically. And this vendor that we landed with had a piggyback option, you know, had the, had the piggyback options for the play structures that we proceeded with. And if PlayWorld didn't have the small playground structure but only the large one, the— they still chose to go with the, the small and large option with one vendor because they could still stay within budget? So if PlayWorld did not have— they only offered the small, larger playground structure, for example. Yeah, if I, if I remember correctly, and Martin, uh, you can— you might be able to help me recollect, but I think the other vendors were only able to offer one. We were only able to get one of the play structures, and this vendor, you know, tightened in their pricing and was able to offer one bigger play structure and one small smaller play structure accomplished two goals within the budget, and that was why we moved forward with that vendor, right? As opposed to redeploying those funds for another need, the savings is— uh, well, actually, okay, I see where you're— I see where you're going with it. Actually, during the discussion before these budgets were approved, one of the items on this list was multiple play structures at the Roosevelt site. That's helpful. So that— yeah, that— yeah. So multiple play structures were on the docket of potential— of project needs. And they only had— they believed they only had enough money to accomplish one. One was approved. We were able to do two. So it was something to celebrate, if that makes sense. Sorry. Yeah, that's helpful. Thank you. You asking that question brought back, brought back that, brought that back. So another one on here that also looks oddly from the optics is Atlas Pelasari, if I'm pronouncing it correctly, install IP speakers. If that were one contract, it would be above the no-bid limit for that particular contractor, but it's split between two different school sites and both of them now fall under the $60,000 limit. And scapes. Scapes is actually different work though, isn't it? Furnish and install— this is literally the exact same line item. Install 6 exterior IP speakers, right? From the same— other than removing base rock, the same. Furnish and install— oh, okay. So there you go. So I guess the— from an oversight perspective, we just want to be crystal clear on whether someone is deciding to break up these contracts into smaller chunks so that they don't have to be bid out competitively. Yeah, and I can tell you where the Atlas tunnel was— or you probably— right, with technology. And, and I was speaking to a— last— which I believe this was under— you also have up to $107,000 for technology integration. Implementation and integration, uh, where at that point, because we'd already gone with this is our standard, we were able to continue on with that. Uh, I guarantee you this is not splitting for the $60,000. It conforms to, uh, I believe it's 1079 or 1077, uh, for this year, uh, for technology purchases. Did, did you have— did it pull from different funding allocations? As well, because, you know, at two different school sites, I imagine you have one bucket for, uh, one school and a different bucket for a different school. Part of it just applied project, right? It wasn't a site-specific project, it just took place at two school sites. Technology is one of the things that we put across the board to the structure and security items of these speakers. These speakers were specifically placed to reach outdoor areas and fields. Those, those were both safety, safety, security related. I, I don't think anyone's questioning whether you should have IP speakers for safety. I think the question is, I mean, Atlas is the number 5 highest paid vendor from the district, and then SCAPE is number 6 right after it. And then to your point, SCAPE installed, furnished and installed SAW at Garfield and did the same work at Taft And each of those are conveniently less than $60,000 as well when you break them up. So it just looks— when you look at these examples of these highly paid contractors, one could look at this without the background and say, well, it's, you know, the district is feeding these contracts no bid to their favorite contractors because they get it done quickly. To your point, Paul, if we have to bid it, it takes time. And maybe we'll get a contractor that's not our friend or the guy down the street or can't do it next week or whatever. Uh, 100%. But you also do get the fact that the vendors will send out quotes separately, typically to track also for themselves. So they will try— you will quote per, per site. Yeah, they were these— they were separate, separate proposals. Um, you know, yeah, um, they, they want to track their own inventory where they go. Usually you break up your purchase orders per site. But again, it— I, I see what you're saying, Carl, and this is an oversight committee, so I agree. You do— there is— having scrutiny is, is prudent. Yeah. Any other questions on this one? Okay, um, not hearing any. That takes us to 624, which is the new handout that, uh Rick just passed around to replace the 624 that was— I might not have been crystal clear to the district of what we wanted to see, but what this is meant to be, and I think the fresh handout correctly lists, is what were the new bond expenditures that were approved by the board since we last met. They may not have been— money's been spent yet. And so this is that list, and we, we see some of the things we've already been talking about are on here. Um, does anyone have questions about the new bond expenses approved since the last meeting? Okay, so that takes us to the end of 6.2. Is there any public comment on anything in 6.2? Just have one more comment for 6.2. By the way, for no-bid contracts Uh, vendors do have the ability to, uh, petition if they felt were untreated fairly, if they're treated unfairly in a, in a contractual, uh, situation where they did not get a chance to bid for a project. Um, it's come up before. So the vendor themselves, if Playground World and Playground Structures didn't feel they were actually treated equally, one will petition. Yeah, we do it all the time. If we've— if, if you have a I felt like it weren't— how would the competitor to Atlas know that somebody was— this has to be disseminated information. I think it's public information when there's— when even for NO bid contract. So once it shows up, if they do get an award and someone does get an award and they're like, well, wait, we didn't even get an opportunity to bid, they can protest, they can question it. And vendors do it all the time. So that leads me to wonder, is— how does this committee get visibility into any protests or grievances that have been raised on no-bid contracts? None. What are you calling these? The ones we're talking about, the no, the no-bid list. No-bid one. I haven't heard of any. How would a competing contractor know that we were giving a no-bid contract to Atlas for IP speakers? Pay attention to the board agenda. So another electrical contractor would be reviewing the board agenda to see what is being approved. Most, most of these vendors have, uh, like a team or an individual that go through every school district in their area's board agendas every single week and check everything. And, and yeah, that, that's a, that's a regular thing for sure. If it's, it's a no— as well as external groups that actually do it professionally for the contractors. If it's a no-bid and you're essentially sole sourcing the work, that defeat the purpose of offering the bid to other vendors. I think it's a no-bid based on the fact that they don't get to go through competitive RP, right? But it's still— every vendor still has an option to to, to, uh, submit a PO or submit it— sorry, a, a quote for the project. Not clear. Not on the under $60K. I, I— yeah, I think, I think I'm with you, Jen. If it's the under $60K, they're, they're sole sourcing it. Yes. Yeah, and it wouldn't be out for bid. That's correct. It's not approved, but we'll still approve. Yeah, so I, um, I, I would just ask if you guys could go double-check and let us know at the next meeting if there were any for the fiscal year as opposed to just for the contracts we're currently discussing. And the question was on protest grievances or protests or inquiries, competitive inquiries raised around no-bid contracts for the fis— last fiscal year? No, not to my knowledge. I will, um, I'll just add it as a standing agenda item going forward, and we can just check the box on that if there aren't any. Okay, anything else on 6.2? Um, otherwise we'll move to 6.3, financial updates. And, um, Erica has sent around a number of materials which I'm sure she's excited to take us through after waiting an hour and a half. You need to make the host 6.3, receive district financial update on total revenue and expenditures for Measure T and Measure S bond program. For this item, I 5 reports, and I hope we produce the, the desired report. This one is Measure T Bond Fund Income and Expense Summary. We will show you the 2022-23 year-end closing on an unaudited actuals report. We have Bond 21, Prop 39, Bond 25 impact is, and then each column showing the, the revenues and the revenues and expenditures for each fiscal year. And I highlighted in orange for fiscal year 2022-23, um, the revenues were $262,100 and expenditures $16.1 million. And the total for all funds, uh, the expenditure is $211.4 million. The other local revenue, $249,000— is that interest on the bond money, or what is that? That's the 4, uh, quarter— 4 quarters interest on the bond money last fiscal So yeah, okay. And then the, uh, on the expenditures for last fiscal year, we'll have to write that report at some point. Um, the $127,000 under classified salaries, do you know— I believe that is a bond accountant. Are there other salaries under that row? Currently, uh, I just have, uh, my salary. Okay, but it was much higher, or was in previous years it was almost twice as much? Was there someone else under there in previous years? Director of the bond program, Scott Diaz, there, he retired. We haven't put anyone in that position yet. Okay, so that's why we see the drop last year, because he retired last year, or that in that fiscal year or something. Okay, August, August of last year. Thank you. I go for the second report, is, uh, board report. Uh, this is just, uh, um, supporting, uh, a document generated from, uh, the RCSD financial system. It shows the year-to-date actuals. And this is where I— showing the number 262.1 thousand and the 16.1 million expenditures. This is for Measure T. Great. The third report, it's the— So this is a budget report. The left side, you have the funds and then the object codes and expenditures. And each column has the project. And on the second page At the bottom, I want to point out, um, it shows the budget shows $214,892,94, um, but there is also an unposted for, uh, interest revenue for the fourth quarter, uh, $49,622, which— sorry, I think you lost me. I don't know if others— but are, are we on this one, accountability? Or yeah, yeah, or are we on the spreadsheet? Yeah, I, I'm sorry, I had a, a question on, on, um, this one. Uh, no, you're not allowed to go back. Sorry, um, just on the expenditures, there's a couple negative amounts, and, um, where, you know, the beginning balance, uh, or the budget was like $124,000 and the year-to-date actuals are $127,000. So there's, uh, you know, we're, we're deficient in that funded amount. Um, you know, uh, classified salaries under the expenditures, uh, essentially. Are you on A or are you on 63B? Yeah. So are we— is— are there reallocating funds to cover these, or how, how is that getting evened out? So I, I need to update the budget at the end, um, to match the actuals. Okay, um, and so wait a minute, so you, you set the budget to whatever you actually spent at the end then? Yes, we set the budget to the, um, actuals. Because isn't normally the budget what you plan to spend and then you track the actuals and whatever the difference is you highlight it, it's either good or bad, right? You don't normally change the budget to match how much you actually spend at the end of the month. I mean, I'm not a school district accountant, but that does sound odd. Yeah, can you clarify? Are you talking about, I don't know, because it's a negative and moving it to make it— no, I just think it was the comment that Erica made that says she updates the budget at the end of the fiscal year to match what was actually spent so that it looks like— we do, uh, after that, during close— we close right now, we won't have negative in there. Uh, the budget was based, uh, back when, uh, previously, uh, there wasn't a budget adjustment made during the year, uh, but there may have been overtime pay or other, uh, items, uh, went above the budget of base salary. Sure. But that's reflected in the actuals, correct? You don't go back and change the budget. The budget was what the budget was approved, right? Right. If you spend more or less— yes. And we don't have, uh, we don't have, uh, access to change the budget all the time. So only when the county said we cannot, uh, change the budget, then when you— like, most time is like every 3, 4 months. In, uh, this is— I'm talking about the school district financial system. So, so some of the board has approved the budget change, you just haven't entered it into the system, is that what you're saying? Because it's not allowing— yeah, it doesn't allow me. We, we don't arbitrarily change budgets, right? And we're at close right now. And so when, when that funding change or the budget change happens, it just draws out of the remaining funding for the overall bond program. That's correct. Okay. Are there any large— are variances tracked? Like, and I come from like an earned value side of things where variances are tracked like in a monthly or quarterly level where to ensure that, you know, when you have these budgeted amounts, if there is a variance, fixing that variance as fast as possible as opposed to— Yeah. So is, is that— are variances tracked? Oh, they're periodically reviewed and go through that to make sure our budgets are in alignment, more so at the performance review, right? And then, then as we go through what this will close, looking at all expenditures for this particular line item and really making necessary adjustments to cover that unregulated balances for those students. Sorry to dwell on this, and I— maybe I'm just an idiot. I'm sorry. So let's just take this specific example of classified salary on this sheet. It says that the budget is $124,000 and year-to-date we've spent $127,000. So we're over, over budget. Fine, there might be a great reason why we're over budget. Why would you go back and change the budget number? It's not necessarily changing the budget number, it's updating the current status and making that account, uh, back to zero through the close. Uh, so, uh, school district financial systems are unlike any other financial systems in a lot of ways in how they track money. Uh, so there would be, uh, adjustments that made with like a budget adjustment, uh, and then that would be carried forward as we budget out for the future year, right? So we have to make an adjustment, and that we would adjust it so that our ending balance is not zero. So we would have to increase budget by $3,000 or less. Have to because of software constraints or have to because of accounting laws for how school districts are required to do it? Yes, some of it's both. The financial systems are not easily usable, um, and so we want to, uh, we try not to have negative balance in our funds. Carl, let me— Is that because you want to get the funding sourced correctly for the next year, and then so it moves forward. I could try to give a high-level example that might help clarify things. So you, Carl, I think you're, you're talking about like an initial budget snapshot, but say, say that the— I'm just looking at a column that says budget. Yeah, I mean, you know, that's what the sheet says, budget. Let's see if this could help, help, uh, help you wrap your head around it. So say that the district is working on a project like Orion Alternative and they budget $2 million for an architect, and as they work— and you have a bunch of other line items that are budgeted, construction cost, etc. And you work through and, uh, you get the architect under contract for $1 million. Um, you might want to save $100,000 for contingency in case something additional comes up, but you then have $900,000 left in the architect's budget line item, right? And as you move through the project, you might want to move that $900,000 in budget to construction cost if it was an unused, you know, contingency that's sitting in that budget. So the board would— you know, the board needs to approve budget adjustments, um, but they may want to move that $900,000 to some other budget line item, and which would be like setting the architect line item to the actual— if they have that actual contract in place. Would that make sense? Did that make— help anyone? I'm not sure, but the way I think of a budget is the architect— we're going to spend $1 million on the architect. If the architect sends us a bill for $2 million, we pay the $2 million, that's the actual cost, and then we go back and say, well, the architect cost $2 million, not $1 million, let's adjust the budget. So at the end of the year, it looks like the architect was right on budget, but in fact it cost us double what we had originally planned. That, that's kind of what I heard, and I'm trying to just wrap my head around this. Yeah, so I'm trying to bring that forward into item 6.3C and understand, because I've been flipping through this one periodically as we've gotten this, it— we look like we're really good at hitting budget to expenditure. Is that because the budgets Is, is that same budget column also always updated such that if we wanted to actually go back and look at each of these projects and see how they came out on expenditures relative to initial budget planning, we'd have to go pull a static copy of this from back in time? Sorry, which one were you looking at? This one, the highlight. Roger? Yeah, so 63C. I think what you're saying is I always thought like, great job. Yeah, if you pick Henry Ford, it says the budget was $4.3 million, we came in at $4.2 million. Well, if the budget was originally $2 million a few years ago and now it's— we're coming in at $4.3, we're celebrating that we're at $4.2 or whatever. But we would know that here. Yes, I'm— I understand what you're asking. Or in this report you're sending out where you're saying you're under budget. Is that— are, are we understanding that right, that like It's not just specific to this budget column in this one report. It's across all of the budget reporting that we're receiving as a committee that adjusts to reflect actuals on a quarterly or periodic basis. No, that's accountability. Is, um, will— is, uh, adjusting right away the budget. So maybe— part from— yes, as I, as I mentioned, so if we had like a $2 million budget for an architect and the architect's actual was $1 million, and we could— the architect completed their work, we would then propose to the board adjusting the budget to move that additional $1 million that was unused in the budget to another line item to be used and spent down. So at the end of the program, not the underspending. So just take a— looking at the front page of 5 of 63C, for example. Let's just pick on Clifford. So it says the total budget for Clifford is $5 million, right? So the question is, I think that Cameron and I are asking is, well, what was the budget for the Clifford modernization when the project was commissioned? Was it $5,020,989, or does that number adjust every fiscal year period to what was actually spent? It doesn't necessarily get adjusted to what was actually spent, but throughout the program the district, the district, you know, can add, add work to sites, and they have to, you know, adjust budget, add additional work to sites, you know, make other types of adjustments. And when doing so, you take into account the actuals and any remaining contingency, you know, unused that, you know, could be used for some other other effort, uh, the district had program and board— a board reserve and a program contingency, which was a separate pot of money that could be moved in and out of projects as needed if they wanted to add. You know, if one project has some additional contingency that, you know, there's— is unplanned, something came in under budget, that, that money could be moved to another project for another effort. It just has to be approved— the, the movement has to be approved by the board. So the budget number is— it can be moved. So for example, if board approval— if Clifford here, where it says construction was $4 million of the $5 million, right, on this Clifford project— Yeah. If originally the contractor said it's going to cost us $2 million, not $4, so the budget for the overall project would be $3 million, not $5, and they came back, I don't know, 3 years ago and said, no, it's going to be $4 million, not $2 million, and the board approved that, now we would see that the project is under budget it's $4.9 million spent against $5 million, but actually back somewhere in time it was $2 million over budget, but we just adjusted the budget to make the actuals— you see what I'm saying? I'm just giving you a hypothetical. The only way we would know that is if that, as a committee, we had kind of the budget— what was the budget snapshot each fiscal year of the Clifford project? You, you would need to pay— you would need to have been at the biannual budget update presentation where we present all of the budget movements between, you know, all any movement of budget between projects or between contingencies, because that is when we, you know, go very— we spend hours going, you know, deep into every project, every line item, you know, where the budget is, what, how the district, you know, wants to move unused money, you know, around, add, add work to certain projects. So, so is there any constant— a constant effort through the 7 years I got you. Is this— for an oversight committee, is this report at all useful, or should we just abandon it? Because it's basically always going to show that the expenditure is less than the budget, because the budget gets moved to reflect the expenditure. So I'm not saying this, this, this— that's bad or good or whatever, it's just whatever it is. But I'm not sure this report is very helpful in an oversight context then. Um, I mean, it shows you the breakdown— shows the breakdown of, you know, what the amount of money that was spent at each. It shows you, you know, how much is remaining against the budget, total expenditure. So that— I mean, that's up to you guys whether you want to continue seeing this report or not. Well, I, I guess the question I would have is, so we have one table that shows uncorrected budgets, or budgets that have not been corrected yet. They're showing some negatives. Um, these budgets have not been corrected either, correct? Sorry, um, so, um, these budgets have not been trued up, um, in the same way that— consolidated— because like what we were talking about with 63B is that there's some negative showing that will be handled at year-end close, or in the close. Um, so with 63C, um, is that also— are these numbers also reflecting of uh, not, uh, these budgets not being trued up in the same way that we were talking about with 63B. Because I think your point is nothing is over budget in this report, but things are over budget in this report. Yeah, I would suspect, and we're all on the Consolidated Bond Oversight Committee, I, I would Say, as of this, these costs have been updated to a large degree. There might be one or two little things going on as they go through some final records right now. This one that was as of 6:30 is going to be your enclosed form. Yeah. Okay, not necessarily. Project. A little more granular. Or, uh, it wasn't a change order that caused this one, right? I mean, uh, or unforeseen circumstance. It may have been unforeseen, or may have been— Eric, I'm not paying attention, but it might have been $3,000 overtime, which is really, you know, with overhead, not that big of a deal, right? So, um, we'll have to make a correction for that line item in our, our SACS transmittal. I mean, I think the only negative on here really is the classified salary and benefits right here. Does— and that is not included in this report then, correct? No, these are construction projects, right? So this, this is bond expense, but it's not classified in the project list. And then the other one is more time here. Okay. And so something I think would, you know, with what Carl was saying, my associate colleague Carl. Thank you. I think having like the original total project cost estimate would be helpful here, where we would get to see where the trend was. And, you know, this was a $4 million project. Now it's a 5. That happens. There's concealed conditions, or scope change, whatever. Lots of things can change over the years, but knowing what that original cost estimate was to compare against the current budget would be, you know, helpful to us. And I think one of the— to pile on to that, I think we're at a new chapter, right? Because we're moving from closing out something that none of us were involved with creating to initiating a bunch of stuff that frankly will be termed out before it completes. So we do need a way to capture those snapshots over time as part of the oversight and be able to pass them on to new committee members so that they can look back as well. So I think you're, you're on to something, Carl. Well, correct me if I'm wrong. I think that you do present that to this committee, the changes within these different projects. I just don't think it's been to this specific group over the years. So what you present to the board where we see the movement in and out of certain projects, or like one that may have gone over because there was toxic soil we didn't know about. We may have in the past. I need to, I need to look back. But we may in the past, we may have, when, when there was a lot, when it was a lot more involved, we may have gone from, we may have gone from presenting the full, you know, budget adjustment, budget update plan at the board, gotten a board approval, and then brought that to the CBOC. I think you might be right. So for a future table, could you have original budget, revised budget, expenditures? You potentially be seeing like the contingency comes down but other budget items go up in the projects. Certainly, I think for Measure S, that's a fair request, right? As we start— initiate new projects Yeah, let's capture what was the original budget that was approved by the board, and then there would be periodic adjustments, but you'd always be able to see where it started. I think that's what you're suggesting, right? And that's what you're suggesting, Carl? Exactly. So last comment on this as we wrap this topic up, it sounds like, but just revisiting the public comment and just wanted to make clear for the public and the, and the committee that the section of the report that we approved that talks about spend versus budget is talking about specific projects that were under budget and the amount of savings on each of those, not just overall. So I, I don't think it pertains to the same number that we're talking about. The report that we've been focused on and looking at on the construction projects, the multi-year is attached, and so we could revisit whether we want to attach that or want to revise it, but I do think it's consistent with the form of report that was issued for the years prior. And so that information is available to the public to see the way that the report has kind of evolved over time and may create more confusion for the public in changing the reporting. But I would suggest that as a committee for Measure S reporting, we consider something that's maybe potentially less confusing at best. At least in that budget heading category or— Yes. I think one of the projects that the committee can take on in the 4 to 6 months that we're waiting for new things to kick off is thinking about what is the proper reporting package that we should be reviewing for Measure S and reporting out to the public as well. So good discussion. Any other comment? I think there's one more item, right, Erica? D? D and then E. Oh, okay. So that the sources and budgets report. As you can see, on the left side we have the funding sources, and then the expenditures, and then you can see the object as well. And then all the columns are the project and expenditures. And at the end of the pretty large report you can see The second page at the bottom showing the total expenditure, the total budget, $214,890,294. I, I wanna add that there's also an unposted fourth quarter interest revenue, which puts this total to $214,939,000. $49,900— $916. The fourth quarter interest is $49,622. Uh, just a question. So we were having a conversation earlier about, uh, will program management versus construction management, right? Yes. For your firm. Yeah. So there is a column on the backside of this called, let's see, program administration. So that's, that's going to RGMK. The construction— No, let me clarify that. So you have the V program common, V program administration project, right? Yes. If you follow that down to Object Code 6218 on the far left side, line item called Program Management. Under B, Section B, the second item. Okay, you'll see that that cell is $15,264,414. Our contract lands within that $15,264,414, but we are— but that is not all us. That is all program management consultants and program management cons— uh common costs inclusive, right? But so we are, we are a smaller portion of just that one box that shows the $15,264,414 under program common cost, object code 6218. So that raises another question that I'll just ask while we're here. Under Item C, this, uh, there's other cost construction. That's the next biggest $3.3 million of program administration costs. What is that then? Construction under program administration? Do you happen to know? I could quickly pull it up if you guys give me a minute or two. And maybe that relates to my first question, which is, are your construction management costs allocated into the individual projects or are they captured under this 1B column here? So construction management costs are not captured in the program common program admin project. Construction management costs are captured per project under object code 6226 under Section C. It's the bottom line item. Okay, so that— yeah, so those are— and then that's, that's per— that doesn't explain the $3.3 million. Then you're gonna look— you're saying, you're saying other, other costs of construction, 60— object code 624 14. And the one that's specifically under program management, because they seem to be in con— the type— the names seem to be in conflict. Like, you wouldn't be doing construction under program. Uh, so yeah, so other— that's other costs. That's not construction management, that's other costs of construction. Yes. 6214. So yeah, let me look that up. And then where on this report— maybe Erica, you could answer— so the district salaries and expenses, for example, for you as the program— the bond accountant, Which column is that in? It's in the bond program. The same one that we're talking about here, one right above our $15 million, the $1.841,603 under salaries and benefits for the district and the bond. That's helpful, thank you. And this is for the full life, right? Yes, yes, this is— yes, this is the full life of the program. I've got our accounting software fired up. Give me a minute or two to get— so then into the project, into that item. So then, Erica, what would be under, under this 6216? The first item under B is salaries and benefits district. So we just talked about the $1.8 million that's there under program representing the staff, but there's also costs that are under each project that are district salaries and benefits, what would be accounted for at that level? For example, if you look at— Those are, those are district staff that supported the project. Okay, so under Taft, for example, there's $90,000. That would be somebody working at Taft from the district but on a bond project? Yes, what is that? Normally those are— that we've discussed that at the past meeting. Normally that's like custodians opening gates, uh, you know, helping with things like— things like that. Particularly recall watering trees was one of them. Moving. Yeah, moving. I think that was the, the, the bigger piece of it. And Gil, why would it be so big at Gil? The portable sets really limited. And so guys, where is Gil? Is that on the first page? I'm not sure. Oh, John Gil. And then you seeing— what are you seeing? $123,000 spent from district. Are those mainly people on your team, Martin, that are working on, uh, that are allocating their time to bond projects? So I have your answer for program admin costs, object code 6214, other cost of construction. So that— what the bulk of that was, security guards and safety— COVID-19 safety compliance officers. Um, so they were, uh, they were captured under program common costs, um, as a single contract that overarched all of the construction projects instead of accounting for them in each individual project where they were working. Uh, I believe so, yes. Okay. As well as moving services, um, portable office rentals, Well, these are some rat holes you could just go down all day, huh? Okay. Yep. Thank you for clarifying that. Any other questions on D? Kind of. Questioning of if we should ask, but, you know, if you get to the bottom of 3D, 6.3D, you get a total amount of $214,890,294. And then if you go back to 6.3A, you're at $211 million. Is, is there— are, are the dates of these documents different, or like the performance period? Well, this is the expenditures, uh, the actuals, $211.4 million. Those are the actuals, and this is budget, um, on the budget report. So that means So, well, become the actual amount we just learned at some point. Yeah, yeah, I, I'm just seeing a line that says total expenditures. Okay, yep. So total expenditures on the— what is this one— D, um, is $214 million. And, um, if, if these are the actuals at $211 million Shouldn't there be balance remaining on this one showing— sorry, um, yeah, because this is the budgeted amount, um, because these— the total expenditures on this sheet should equal the total expenditures on the 63A unless there is remaining funding. You can see that there's Section G, that's contingency funds. Oh, remaining funds. Yep. Gotcha. Yep, that's a good question. But that's, that's captured as an expenditure. Well, so this is, this is a report that is printed out of our budgeting accounting and contract tracking software. So this is actually, this is of the budget. Uh, it does say it's planned expenditures. You're seeing, you're looking at this word expenditure right there. Yeah, yeah, so it's planned expenditure. So this is actually a budget document. Okay, and then you can see that, that— yeah, there are remaining contingencies at the bottom. Gotcha. And then this report, the bottom number right here, $211 million, that is actual expenditures to date. And so you can see that that is less than the total, total on the budget document of $214 million. If you want to look in the accountability, um, it was showing the paid column that would match the— okay. 2K actual expenditures, that $211.4 million. Okay, and where would we see the— I think we heard earlier a million dollars left to be spent, uh, here in the contingency project, contingency G, at $609,000. Is there— it's a good question. Um, so if you take the board reserve project column, which is sitting at $523 Yeah, um, and then you take the contingency total. If you take, uh, Section G at the far right, the total of all project contingencies remaining is $609,000. Yeah, do you see that? Yeah. So isn't $523,000 part of the total $609,000? $609,000 is just a total of all the rows to the left, right? Yes. So, so isn't $609,000 the total then? Yes. And since, since this report was printed, we have been going through all of the projects, uh, shaving off any unused contingency money from all of the object codes. So there has been an effort— you— from $600,000 up to— the $1 million is a foresight that is not shown here yet, but if we were to print this report today Uh, the board reserve is sitting at, I believe, $910,000. And then RGMK, uh, is— came in under budget on one of our CM agreements at Garfield. Yep. And has an amendment, uh, going to the next board meeting to give $100,000 back to the school district that was unused, um, which brings us to approximately a million. Okay. And so there will be a future board discussion on how to spend that million dollars. Sure, got it. Thank you. I know these can be real detailed questions here, but helps us to understand. They're all good questions. Carl, did you get what you needed? Yeah. Okay, that was great. Thank you. Okay, and there is the last, uh, report. E6, it was the board report, but this time it's for Measure S. And as you can see, the $22,000 is for interest revenue, and the proceeds from sale of bond is $89.5 million. Got it. Great. Okay, any, anything else, Erica? We covered 6.3. What is the, uh, interest on the bond? Do we know? You're asking for the total, just the interest rate, or what are we getting? Wait, are you asking what the bond rate is or what the interest rate they're getting on the cash? Oh, the interest rate for the cash. Okay. Do the funds have to be allocated to certain, certain way for this to, to, um— are you constrained in having to stay with that number? Yeah, yeah. Any comment, Terry, on 6.3 before you leave? Mr. Robel? Yeah, so one thing I just— the CBOC might want to consider is going back to the— I think this was a good discussion about the budget, right? And I think we all agree it can be very confusing to somebody, even after you've gone through it, still confusing. But, um, When you go to the taxpayers, which is the CBOC's responsibility to inform, and you say we were under, under budget, right? I don't think, unless you're going back to the original estimate from whatever years ago, which I don't— and the, and the, you know, the Board of Trustees. Oh, on time, on budget. They always say that. I mean, if they're comparing it to this manufactured budget that's fluid, that doesn't really mean anything. We had this conversation, I know, at a CBOC a while ago. So I would you might want to consider removing that reference to being under budget in your report to the public. That, that was the earlier topic, right, where it says you're under, under budget? Yeah. So I would, I would say thank you for that comment, and I, I think I responded to that one earlier. I went back to the report and identified that the only place it says that is on specific projects, and it makes clear that it's, um, then moved to other projects. So I do think that the, uh, attachment leaves the impression that you're talking about an original budget, and so we can revisit that going forward, but it's consistent attachment that's been provided by prior iterations of the committee. Thank you. Okay, moving along to 6.4, probably a quick topic. We've got Janet, who's filled one vacancy that we've had, I think, for more than a year on the CBOC. We still have one representative business organization that's been open for a long time. And any progress report on filling that role? And after they watch this video, why wouldn't they want to be on this committee? I mean, Uh, just on their— I don't know if either school library— there's a report, like, Sonic billboard advertising for civic responsibilities. Uh, and, and they— but they do advertise. Do we have any insight in whether the district intends to ask the board to take away the, the large size of the committee that they expanded it to, or whether we're going to stay with the overly large side of the committee even with persistent vacancies. Want to know what happened to the tuition? No, the, the number of seats was expanded out. Did it come back down? That was the request of this committee. Prior iterations of the committee. No, I understand that. Like, so, but I don't know if we formally can comment on that. What is the size? It, uh, is it 11 or— I, it just went up to something crazy. I don't know if given the difficulty. Yes. Wasn't there a reason that you guys increased? I think 7 is what's required, minimum required. That was it. Yeah, yeah. So I, I don't know, is there a formal process for requesting that we go back to the minimum required, um, or can we just leave that in your capable hands? Because we've adjusted the quorum definition to something that makes more sense in our bylaws, so that's no longer an issue. And I think leaving that number of seats open creates what we've seen to be some conflict with people feeling like they'd like to participate and there's open seats. I mean, so right now there are 9 members. I feel like it was 11 in something I saw. I thought there were— I thought there were— it was open to 11, raised to 11. We have 9 currently with one unfilled required, legislatively required position, which is the business representative. So I don't think we want to fire anyone off the committee. You're not suggesting, right, to go back down to 7, get rid of some people? No, no, I'm not. I just don't— I— maybe me after all my questions tonight. I, I just think there should be some rationality to the bond size. I think as a board member, I would ask that, um, if say Rick were to bring it to the board, somebody from this committee speak to the board about it so that it's clear to the public that we're not just doing this willy-nilly, going up and down. And should we put something on the next agenda? Let me know. That's coming up as a topic here, whether to change the size. Um, okay, anything else on the filling the vacancy topic? Okay, 6.5 is the website. Uh, so at our last meeting, we commissioned the two Carl's to go off and develop a proposal for improving the bond portion of the district website, which is okay but hard to find stuff. The two Carls did not— were not able to accomplish the task in the required time, so we're asking for an extension, and we'll come back with a proposal at the next meeting. So recall the input that's reflected in the minutes on what to consider when you do that project would be my only refreshing of those requests. I know I, I suggested that we put more in Spanish and make it more accessible. I saw that in the minutes. Yep. Okay, good reminder. Thank you. So that takes us to our last item. Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. Thank you. So when someone goes on the website and tries to access it, different languages is a great idea. Is there— I'm, I'm just thinking of all aspects of our community members that can possibly read it. Is there a way to hear it, or is that— it's hosted off of the district's website, and I would say the district's website is behind, um, where most technology is on accessibility on their website. So we are at the mercy of kind of what's available there. But no, it doesn't, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles you would expect from an accessibility— I'm just thinking out loud here, most people that would need that probably have that capability on their— not necessarily. I mean, some people are colorblind, some people need different fonts. Like, most companies have done that, but our district has not. We'll catch you. Yeah, eventually. Didn't the new, new website, uh, require like the OCR, optical character representation, that would allow allow anyone that can't— character readers— to have, as you mentioned, have the software on their program or that recognizes all characters and reads it to them. I thought that was part of it, but I think I might be mistaken. I know you work for it, you might know that, right? Yeah, what it did— there's a lot of items that we cannot put on the website unless we don't see our— Dr. R— it did add— I'm sorry, right? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, visually impaired, but there's other accessibility. Answer your question, yes, it— people that cannot see do have their software that would allow them to have it read to them. Okay, uh, agenda items for the next meeting beyond the standard set Is there anything in particular that members would like to see? And then we'll talk about the next meeting date as well. I'll capture that here in a second. So— Sorry, I'm sorry. I just wanted to know if we're closing out then Measure T, and then are we moving forward to Measure S for CBOC, or are we getting near the— I know there's, there's still funding still left to report on. Measure T, uh, the CBOC for Measure T has to until the end of— oh, funding? Yeah. Okay. Which we've heard is the end of the fiscal year, right? End of June. So we'll be doing dual, dual duty for our next 3 meetings. So that is— is that— okay, that's a question. Actually, it's going to go beyond that because we have to write our report. Okay, so are we going to be doing dual duty? Are we going to see Measure S as well? Uh, funding as it goes through? Yes. Okay, this is, this is a combined committee based off the GO bond. So this is the Measure— technical report on Measure T and Measure S. Yes, tonight was the first one, right? Erica presented on the, on the only Measure S report. We got two reports on Measure S. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just wanted to know. Yeah, okay. So on the website and in— I, I've been trying to do it in the materials, getting rid of Measure T and just saying this is the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee. Okay. And the oversight would be of any bonds that the, uh, any Prop 39 bonds that the district— that was approved by the board last spring, I believe, right? To have one committee do both. And we adopt, uh, updated our bylaws to do that as well as a committee. Yeah. Um, okay, any topics for the agenda? So just in terms of things that have come up tonight, um, I think it would be helpful to receive the demographics study and any related projections when the— once it's— after it's been presented to the board. I think that would be helpful for understanding the expense. And then also just the, the bigger question of understanding if there's— from the district— if, if there's other deltas between what is presented to the Board of Trustees on bond expenditures that is not then brought to this committee, because we heard at least one came up tonight. I don't want to just uncover those piecemeal if if it would be possible to just understand what the catalog is that's presented and what the subset is that's brought here, so we can make sure we're aligned to that. Um, can I ask for clarification on that? I think you meant change the change order descriptions, right? No, I mean the materials presented to the Board of Trustees on bond expenditures versus the materials that are then brought here. Just understanding what the universe is out there so that we're not We provided every expenditure through 6/30 in a spreadsheet, every single expenditure. I think types of materials, the different reports and different categories of materials that are provided. So just as a, as a concrete board agenda, right, anything that was presented to the board is on the public board agenda. So the district's position would be that this committee needs to go review the board agenda, bring those materials to the committee, and then review as provided here. Or we can have an understanding of what's already available, and it can be just brought to this committee as well. Well, I, I'm, I'm not the district, but I do not believe the district ever presents a, a full expenditure list the way that they do. I'm not saying full expenditure. I'm saying that that's why I'm directing it over. Let me help with a concrete example. Maybe this will help. You mentioned that you do a twice-annually budget review with the board. Is that correct? Yeah. You don't do that with us. Well, so this is an example of something, just to give an example of— I think what you're saying is there are materials in general, not the expense report, there are materials that are presented to the board that may not get presented here. So those are budget update presentations, and I don't believe that that falls— I, I don't believe that like the actual presentation of budget adjustments falls within like the CBOC's— yeah, but we may disagree with you. This is what I, I keep directing this to the district, so I'm going to repeat my request to the district and see if they'd like to honor or not. Another example that came up was the, um, narrative description of change orders that's provided to the Board of Trustees, but we get a list with acronyms. Like, can we just kind of— yeah. Previous one. Yeah, other things that exist that are relative— relevant to the materials that we're reviewing, knowing that what they are and being able to just kind of say without— I mean, otherwise I'm going to spend the next couple weeks and go back through all of the attachments to all the board agendas and come with a specific list, but I'd rather not have to do that. It does say which board meeting they were approved at, so you can go find that— change orders easily. I just figured it was I think the, the bigger request is, um, can the district provide to the CBOC what is provided to the board regarding bonds? That's it. That, that's the request, right? If something is prepared for the board, could it also be copied to the committee, whatever it is? A budget review, a change order review, uh, a new project initiated? I I'm just trying to, uh, I, I think it— sorry if I might take a run at this. Go, go. Um, I think it's just kind of summarizing board actions since we last met, just to give us an update on what the board has approved, uh, since the last CBOC meeting that might impact how the, the bond is being used. And that's, that's really, I think, what you're getting at, is you just want to have that transparency and that update provided within the agenda of this this meeting. So what does the board memo do? The board memo that's attached to every item that we bring before— clarify, the board's not getting anything like extra that's attached to the agenda? That's what we get? I, I think it's, it's more talking about how like the budgets are changing or the changes, the approvals that are happening, um, in the, the board meetings. And I, I think that would be helpful. And providing kind of the context of what we're seeing here. So having that transaction detail is very, very nice and all, but really a kind of that summary of what actions are being taken and how funding allocations are changing. It's the board come up with the attachments. That's what it is. So we can do that. We'll just— and you'll read them. I know you'll read them. So we'll just— as they have to. And ask us questions when we come before them. So we can, we can do that. We just make sure that at each board meeting, Rick, we will pull that picture that we have in our binders, or you scan over. Yeah, I, I think, you know, one of the things that I felt is while we do meet regularly, um, we do only meet every couple of months. So if there's a question that cannot be answered in this sitting. We need to wait several months for an update, and it would just be nice to be able to have kind of that immediate response as opposed to kind of waiting to— for the next meeting to be updated. I'm sorry, maybe it's just late and I'm not getting— sorry, what do you mean by immediate response? Oh, um, it's basically when, like, not being able to describe what the change orders were. Um, you know, it's just You know, we're all here and we, uh, we only meet occasionally or every couple months, and so it, you know, it kind of delays the conversation. We'll, we'll provide— I'm providing that. But certainly, you know, if there's questions like that, if they were asked prior to the meeting tonight, right, on Tuesday night, or even yesterday, somebody would have had something available for today. That happens quite frequently with us. So what happens at the board meeting, when any— when the agendas go out with the board memos that we have all written and the attachments prior to them, what I ask the board is they get them on Friday, they get them on Friday evening. Yeah, I ask they would please get me any questions on Monday morning so that staff and myself can come back and have the responses ready. So I would hope that they do the same with this, with this committee when we send the information out, get you to read it, board members and so forth, and if you have questions, get back to us and we'll determine what is a prime amount of time that we need to answer the questions properly. So I fully take that on board and we're happy to do that, but I also think like two of the exhibits were handed out to us in this room, right? Like coming in in here and different— and that's just not how it's necessarily going to work for a Citizens' Oversight Committee. Some people are going to arrive more or less prepared. So I, I just want to be clear, I was only requesting materials already prepared, yes, publicly available, attached into agendas. Like, can we— can the district do the part of the bylaws about providing technical administrative support and give them to us as well? Because then we— should we send you just a link to the board? Program? Sure. I mean, then you click on it and it would be there, right? Yeah, rather than having to download it, print something, you know, the board cover out to PDF and attach. Rick, why— maybe you and I could work on this offline, because I think I, I, you know, I do my due diligence. I go through the board agenda and there's the bond section. I have to click on each thing and see what the consent items are, and I have to click each one and open it and look at it and And, you know, that's, that's fine. Maybe everyone wants to do that, but maybe there's a more streamlined way to consume it kind of en masse as preparation for each of our meetings. That's, that's what we're trying to get to. So I think the other thing is that I would like to get the materials out to the committee more than 3 days in advance. And because I don't think it is enough time for busy people to review it. It sounds like you have 5 days because you get it Friday and the board meetings are Wednesdays. I get it Friday night at about 5:30. So I've been pretty diligent about getting the stuff to the district way in advance, and I'd like a commitment from you. If we have the agenda and the attachments ready a week in advance, even if you don't post them publicly until the 3-day time, can we get them out to the committee sooner? I don't think you can send things out to a committee that's not available to them. Okay, well then post them publicly sooner. I mean, there's no— it has to be done 72 hours in advance, but it doesn't mean that it can't be done a week in advance, right? And since we only do this once every 3 months, is it, you know, I think we can just plan for it. So I'll work with you on that, and we'll try for the next meeting to give the members a full week to review the materials, because it's a lot of stuff, and it's only getting longer every time we do one of facilities. It's going to be more. So, okay, all right. Um, one more agenda item, please, and this one is a bit of a, a can of worms, but I think we've heard repeated comments from the public, albeit two, I think we're at, public members now who've come to speak on legal counsel and particularly the definition of school facilities only and what falls into Prop 39. We've heard from our newest colleague the discomfort at providing no response when words like fraud are used. As the only lawyer on the committee, like, I will say, I don't think there is an appearance of impropriety from joint counsel when there is no actual conflict. And so that language I take issue from on the feedback. But I do think that client-specific advice can be helpful for different functions providing. And, and I would be remiss to say that I, I think I personally as a lawyer believe we'd be better served by independent counsel that is not beholden to the district. So, but I, I, I would think that maybe we could have a discussion on where people are on that, and then maybe creating a subcommittee if it's relevant to go off and source counsel, you know, in coordination with the district, um, and, and sort that out for the go-forward for the S. Okay, fair enough. I will add that to the agenda. Um, anyone else have something that they want to put on for next time? I would like to know how we're going to fund that though. I know that's not through the district, but where would, where would it be? The same as the district council coming and showing up. It's the same hourly. We pay— it's already being paid by the district now. Um, yeah, okay. And the cost— so can I just make comment on that, please? So I, I made my comment tonight about it because I feel, I feel very strongly that There is no fraud going on via the board, via the district office, via this committee. It's just that when it is said several times in one meeting, I think it behooves us to at least address it somehow and discuss it. Because I, I would not be a member or have agreed to be a member to anything I thought was being fraudulently presented. And so I, I 100% support how these documents have been presented and approved, um, but I do believe that as a legally binding committee, that it behooves us to at least address it so that the community can also see when they're looking at our agendas that we did take it serious and didn't just blow it off. So that was my reason for mentioning it. So, so are you wanting to have it as a separate agenda item to talk about that? I'm not sure it's, it's as much necessary as it— unless this committee feels that we should definitely have it on an agenda item and once for all make comments about it, because the word has been used several times. Um, or we, we go on point and say, um, that we do not support those words or those statements. Um, somehow I feel we can't just let that go away. That's just how I— we can't ignore that it has been brought up. Mhm. And it seems to keep coming up. So, well, I think the, the independent counsel keeps coming up, and I, I, as the only lawyer I believe here, don't disagree. He's not wrong. I didn't get clear answers when I asked legal questions, and there's dicey questions coming up around what school facilities only under Prop 39. I don't know what is the difference between landlord facilities, charter facilities, and, you know, operate. I don't know. Great. And so I, I think there's benefit in figuring out a council and benefit serving the community like, but I would only put the discussion on because I want to hear from everybody else and see if they view that as as worthwhile, and then how we would go about executing it. I will say on the fraud point, the, the discussion that is persistent in this committee is that the district is committing fraud in how they are interpreting the legal ability to spend, and particularly with respect to certain categories— painting and salaries and different things like that— and that the legal counsel that the district has is allowing that to happen, and that this committee is perhaps at best failing to uncover it. And so that's kind of— if I was to unpack the, the concept. So I'm not sure what more we can do on the topic of fraud itself besides the great work that the committee does at meetings like tonight, being, you know, very persistent and inquisitive, and then looking at that counsel piece. But what we're uncovering is the report. Like, we are— there is an independent auditor throughout this entire process that we have to kind of hold that they're doing their job. We have to trust that the system— the auditor is there, as, as we've already, you know, agreed upon with the report that, that's been reviewed. So the action with fraud— I mean, somebody is independently auditing this group. So I mean, I, I agree. Questions have been raised, and I— so I agree with you. I, I agree with— just as a point of order, I don't think we should be discussing something that we didn't put on the agenda. So I've noted that we want to have this topic on the agenda. Yeah. Um, and I think that's appropriate here. So I just want to temper too much discussion about it here. Yeah, point. But I don't want to miss anything else that someone wants on the agenda. Did we get everyone? Was there something else, Cameron? I actually had one more. Okay. Considerably more boring, uh, request, uh, but basically just having the district advise us on any pending litigation or claims that are happening on the bond. That was one of the comments that we got roughly a year ago, I think, in one of the initial meetings from the public, mentioning that, that is something that the CBOC should, should know about. And I think most of the time, or 100% of the time, hopefully, it is just a boilerplate agenda item that we go over. That's perfect. It would be— I'm basically adding it to the list of things we cover in 6.0, which is the information— each, each meeting we go through these things and we can have this checklist. So perfect. I also have one more request, and I don't know if I have to make a motion, but I wanted to make one more request on an edit to the annual report, um, as part of the discussion. I noticed something on the COVID uh, the COVID sheet, Terrian. Can we reopen the discussion? Um, so yes, but just a factual correction. It, it's a minor edit to the, um, cover sheet that says committee members approving a report. It has the full list of the committee, but the full committee is not here right now. Um, so for those who are not in attendance tonight Um, saying that they approved this report may not, um, be correct. I would just say that list the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee members here and not say that, um, we— they are the ones who are— committee members at the time of a report approval. So everybody voted. There was— exactly. So that's fair. Okay, just more accurate it to committee members at report approval. Well, so let's get real formal about this, make sure that we do it right. I would say, you know, a motion to reopen that topic on the agenda. Um, second it. Yeah, I'll move it. You second it? All in favor? Right, you got to lead this. Yes. Okay, so first off, so we, uh, the motion is to reopen agenda item I guess my motion would be to make a small edit to the COVID Yeah, but first we got to get that topic back on the floor. Okay, so we're going to reopen— the motion is to reopen 5.2 so we can discuss that. So is there a motion to reopen 5.2? So moved. Second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay, 5.2 is reopened. Discussion? I would like to— I propose changing the COVID sheet to just listing committee members and not saying that they are— basically striking approving report and just saying committee members for 2023. And we should probably say FY 2022-23 since that is the convention that we used for the other listing of the committee. Okay, so I— anybody else want to discuss this? Yes. Okay, good. You go first. No, I don't want to discuss. I was going to move us along. Okay, thank you. I think it should say committee members at report approval. The point here is to show who was present when the report was written and approved versus who was present when the activity happened. Present on the committee, and then the minutes reflect who is actually present at the meeting. Correct. And then it goes back to, unfortunately though, how many members do we have to have on the committee? As we mentioned earlier. Just a quick background. I put this on here purposely because the last annual report, we, we struggled to approve it because it had the names of these— of us on there, but we didn't write the report. We— none of us were even here when it was written. Um, yeah, and so I just wanted to clarify, these were the committee members that were present when the oversight happened, and these are the committee members who were present when the report was written and approved. So my proposal is that on the right it would say committee members at report approval FY 23-24 to address your point. Did you want to comment, have a counter proposal? No, are you okay with that? Yeah, yeah. All right, so I, I would suggest that Janet just move to like amend her prior motion and add in the additional edits and have the motion be to approve it with all of the edits including those previously requested and those recently requested. Okay, so moved. Do we have a second on the, uh, revised motion? Second. Second. Ayes? Opposed? Okay, great. The amended version— thank you for catching that, Carl. Um, we have one more motion, which is to adjourn. Anyone want to move that? Yeah. Oh, Thank you so much. We did set— so we had an agenda item at the, uh, 2 meetings ago where we set the calendar for the year, but we probably should revisit it each time just to make sure that, um, so let me put that in here. Review upcoming meeting dates. Okay, um, so our next meeting is scheduled for November 2nd. It's a Thursday evening. Um, I'm producing the play at Northstar, and that's the night of the play, so I really would prefer to move it. Um, the following week appears to be a school holiday, November 9th. Looks like it's a 4-day weekend. Veterans Day the next day. So I'm— how about the 16th of November? We have a conflict. District has a conflict. How about the 14th of November? It's a Tuesday night. Okay, 14th. Okay, so, um, next meeting will be, uh, the 14th of November, a Tuesday night, and we'll try and get the materials out the week before so everyone has a chance to review them. Do we need to look ahead to the next meeting? Are we okay? That's far enough ahead. Okay, perfect. Uh, 7, motion to adjourn. Second? Anyone? Second. Ayes? Aye. Okay. Thanks everyone. Great meeting.",
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      "text": "Okay, thank you. Um, so, well, Janet, congratulations. Um, my name is Chris Robel, and I'm a Redwood City resident and, uh, taxpayer advocate. And I am— I wanted to just make one comment. Um, I've made this before, but I want to underscore it once again, and it has to do with the The, these bonds are Prop 39 bonds, right? The school district chose to pursue a Prop 39 bond, which is a 55% voter threshold. They could have done a Prop 46 bond, which is a two-thirds threshold. And the bargain when this school— when the Prop 39 was established, and I should have brought the— was, it's called Smaller Schools and Safer Schools Act, and I actually have it printed out here, and it mentions classrooms, classrooms, classrooms, classrooms all through the what, what was voted on by the, by the citizens of California. And so Prop 39 very clearly needs to state the law, the California Constitution. It's for school facilities and no other purpose. And so that's what it needs to be for. And I was— and so I think it's important as the CBOC is going through its job of auditing and, excuse me, providing oversight, that it looks at it through that lens, and specifically And if it's not school facilities, very few things actually say what you can do and what you can't do, right? It's kind of a Venn diagram. It's very clear what you can do— school facilities. That's it. And so when I hear at the last meeting when training was done, and I was honestly quite disappointed that it was conducted by John Niblin— John Niblin was very clear that he represents the school district, and so does DWK. Bond Council represents the school district. And I, I— there's an analogy, and I encourage everybody, and I forwarded to you all training done by CBOC, which John Niblin actually did recommend as a good organization to get training on, on bond oversight. And they showed some very good videos from other school districts that had problems and what they did to address them. Palo Alto Unified School District, and I know the trustee there who is the chair of the Bond Oversight Committee, and, and then also in South San Francisco, and they had big problems and do have big problems in San Francisco. So I think those stories are good and how they went about them. And the question is if you had these problems here, would we be able to identify them? Not, not accusing that there are these problems, but in case they would. So I think that video is quite instructive. My point being, I think it's really helpful to look at some— having a neutral person to train. And no disrespect to Mr. Niblin, but he represents the— it's, it's in the analogy I gave to, to Carl when I spoke with him earlier. It's like my niece, right? She's getting married, um, and she wants to have a prenuptial agreement, and she doesn't— even though she loves her husband-to-be, she's not going to have the same lawyer represent both of them. By law, and anybody knows this, when you have a prenup, you have to have separate lawyers, because so it's impartial, and the— there's no potential conflicts that come earlier. And as CBOC, I don't think you guys want to have the appearance of impropriety, which you do when you're using the district's counsel. I'm not saying they're— whether they do something right or wrong, it gives the appearance of impropriety, and you don't do it right. It's just like having a realtor that represents both sides, or like I said, a lawyer. So I really encourage you, and I, I vehemently disagree. And every attorney— 50% of attorneys are wrong on things, right? By definition, there's— Trump's attorney thinks he's doing a great job and he's a wonderful paragon of virtue from January 6th. Not everybody thinks that. So I think same with, same with respect to, um, you know, what John Niblin said. I don't agree. It's not but for— he's the but, you know, but for this we can spend— all these things you can spend just using the words but for. It does— it doesn't say that in a law anywhere. And so an example, one thing that I want to get into is with respect to— and the probably the biggest thing that's in Measure T report, and I can talk about it later, but is the administrator salaries provision. And I forwarded the attorney— you know, people hang on this Attorney General opinion saying, okay, we can spend it on administrator salaries if they do anything related to the bond. And if you read that opinion, which I forwarded to Cameron and Carl, and read it specifically. It's not just— it was— the AG was asked a very specific question, right? And it talks about the fact that if there is— and I don't have the language here, but it's— if there is a— if there— if it's cheaper to do out— outhouse— out of externally, then— or if it's cheaper— if it's— if it's more expensive to do— to hire somebody else, you can do it inside using your district personnel. But you can't do it both, right? And I'll pick an example of this most recent report. From the April to June report that was in the Google spreadsheet that Rick sent. Our GM Kramer, who's been paid well over $10 million to do bond program management— and no disrespect to Jim Kramer, I would want to do that too, you know— and, and they also donated to the campaign tens of thousands of dollars to this campaign, living in the East Bay, probably. Anyway, so they, they made $2.2 million just in the 3 months from April to June, and the district salaries were paid $2.4 million in that same time period. I don't know why there wasn't exactly— I assume it's for bond oversight. So why are we paying 2 people to do bond oversight? And I think, and maybe there's some assumptions, and I have something wrong, but that's what I saw on the spreadsheet. So that's an example. And I think Measure T has millions of dollars of district salaries to do bond management, and then there's a vendor paying north of $10 million to do management. So those are the kind of things I think that are not consistent with the legislative intent. And again, this is just an AG opinion, and even the opinion, I think, is— doesn't agree— wouldn't agree with that. So those are just— I mean, we have a lot of other examples I've talked about in the past, but I think the key point is get your own counsel. That way you look pure and you're— you avoid the appearance of impropriety. And I can give you names if you want. And don't use DWK and John Neblin because they have a different client— the client that you are overseeing. It's kind of common sense. But I, I don't— if you want to do oversight, um, that's the way to do it. If you don't and you want to just be— then, then we should— then I, I think there's a problem with it. And CBOC, obviously, whom John recommended, said, uh, says the same thing, right? Um, so anyway, that's it for now. Thank you.",
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      "text": "August 13th meeting. So now we're in the process of, as we've been talking about, ramping down as we start to expend our funds in Measure T, or expend all of our funds in Measure T, and starting to ramp up Measure S. Part of that, as we did with Measure T— I don't think you said a lot of things that I was looking at. As we did with Measure T, it is the selection of the bond program manager. RFP— an RFQ, request for qualifications and proposals, went out in August. We're currently in the process of that and have interviews this week for the firms that submitted responses to our request. We'll be going through that process, finalizing that, and bringing that back to the board, uh, either our next meeting on the 27th or the first meeting in October, depending on how a few things play out with our potential candidates for this purpose. So that's good news in terms of starting Measure S moving forward. And then once they're on board, that's when the rest of this list starts happening. We will be working with our bond program manager along with Dr. Baker, myself, Mr. Cervantes, and scheduling school site and community meetings to get input on their perceived and real needs at their school sites. So that we can use that information to go and review, review, and refine and revise as necessary the facilities Master Facilities Plan that was created in 2014, I believe, Tom? '14-'15? Yeah, '14-'15. Because as we know, times have changed, needs have changed, and everything that was relevant in 2015 may not be relevant today. So we'll take a look at that, make adjustments to the master plan, additions and subtractions as warranted through that. One of the questions that's come up, and it is on here, is equity objectives of the district. And I think it's important when we talk about equity with facilities, we have to take into a number of things, including the age of buildings, what condition they're in regardless of age, And then we also have to look at educational programs, right? So we might not do the same thing at every school site, but we will target the things that are important to that school site. And an example would be if there is a huge dance program or music program at one particular school site, but it doesn't exist at other school sites, they may receive something from that where the others won't. We, we had some discussions about this in the last couple of weeks. Including in Martin Bridge. So the story of during the 2003-04 bond program, school sites got multi-use buildings, with the exception of Hoover. So as part of the Measure T bond program, it was to bring that into equity with the rest of the district and bring an MUB to Hoover during that process. So what we'll be looking at as we evaluate those projects that were there from 2014-15, along with the input of our current school community, right, our parents and students and teachers that are there, along with our community members that, that wish to participate in this process to identify those items that are most important to them. At that point, we'll try and put that all together into some form of presentation that we'll have discussions in open session with the board about what was found through this process, what was added, subtracted, modified, if you will, from the facilities Master Facilities Plan based on current needs. And then we'll have discussions with them about what their priorities are for the projects that we're bringing forward from the facilities Master Facilities Plan and ultimately get their approval to start these projects in accordance with the timeline that will also be developed in coordination with the board. At that point, we'll start the process depending on what the project is, either going to design or to bidding, and then be able to start bringing back information on projects in place and moving forward with Measure S proceeds. So that's it in a nutshell.",
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      "text": "Thank you for allowing my question. So thank you for the climate adaptation consideration, because I had actually was scribbling down. This may not come under this, this bond, and so I'm going to ask the question: is there any consideration given, or are there any dollars going towards safety and security for our school sites, or is that not considered in this bond measure, considering Yeah, some of that will come up during our process of talking with community members, school committee members, general community members, and we'll take that into consideration when looking what was already in the facilities master plan and what we're trying to accomplish and how that fits in.",
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      "text": "Thank you very much, Rick, for preparing that. I think you have good questions there on an important topic and getting the timeline just so this committee is aware of the pace at which this is going to move is very helpful. So we're going to move now into Section 5. This is the action item section where we're going to be taking— as a committee, we're going to be taking action on these items. And so Let's jump right in. The first one, 5.1, is to approve the meeting minutes from our May meeting, and those were sent out in advance, and I see we have copies as well. So do we have a motion on a minutes approval?",
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      "text": "Okay, so I've watched every board meeting and every CBOC meeting for the last year, since, since August last year. So it is my opinion that, um, there is— first of all, I think you should just state how many times they met. Forget about what it's— how many— I think the taxpayers want to know how many times did you actually meet. You're look— you're looking backwards. You met 3 times. Right? That to me is— it's not regularly. It's— you guys want to be as straightforward and transparent to the taxpayers, it's your— your repres— who you're serving, not the district, the taxpayers, as possible. Um, so that would be my suggestion on that minor edit. But the big issue that I— and I know you're not going to accept this, but I believe this is not compliant with Prop 39 for the reasons I mentioned. And the, uh, the auditor relies on the district's counsel, and you're relying on the district's counsel, but there hasn't been an independent view. And I I think pretty clearly Prop 39 has, has been violated with respect to, uh, salaries, administrator salaries, which is millions of dollars. We're not talking— forget about the gate and the other ones. We can argue those are small dollars and buying iPads and bottled water and all that other stuff, which is illegal, but it's small dollars. But the big one is administrator salaries. Um, so I'm just going to state that for the record, and, um, I think it's, uh, misleading or fraudulent to state otherwise. Um, I think the statement about our oversight includes auditing projects. I don't I don't know if— I mean, you— I don't think most of you were here for this because this is more than a year, a year ago. This is 2021-22. I don't know if the CBOC audited projects. I haven't seen auditing projects since I've watched, which I know has been the following year. Um, and I think the other, um, yeah, I think that's the— oh, and then I think this is also giving a false sense of security, and I won't go into detail, but I But the statement here that says our oversight provides an extra layer of protection beyond the district administration and Board of Trustees to allow taxpayers to feel confident in how the millions of your dollars are being spent. I think that's also a very— it's, it's an assertion that, well, you weren't here for one, and I don't think— I have never seen in any trustee meeting a discussion of any bond item. It's all on consent. It's never discussed. It just gets passed. So I don't believe that the Board of Trustees unless they're doing things in the dark, which is another issue. I, I don't know that there is any— this— I don't know what degree of, of protection there is at the trustee level. And I have never seen any pushback from this, what the superintendent wants to do at the trustee level. And, and then CBOC, I mean, we know you just— I, I don't know how much scrutiny there was by the last one either. So in terms— I know there's just recently been starting to review expenditures. I don't know if the last CBOC did any review of expenditures. So I personally, and I, like I said, I was a CFO. So I mean, I know what audits look like, and I, I don't— you're relying on a lot of other people. It's kind of like a circular firing squad. Everybody's relying on somebody else. I don't know. I don't personally feel confident, and that's a pretty strong statement, especially when you guys weren't involved and you have your name associated with it. So that's my feedback. Thank you.",
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      "text": "Yeah, so I, um, I, I would just ask if you guys could go double-check and let us know at the next meeting if there were any for the fiscal year as opposed to just for the contracts we're currently discussing. And the question was on protest grievances or protests or inquiries, competitive inquiries raised around no-bid contracts for the fis—",
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      "text": "So last comment on this as we wrap this topic up, it sounds like, but just revisiting the public comment and just wanted to make clear for the public and the, and the committee that the section of the report that we approved that talks about spend versus budget is talking about specific projects that were under budget and the amount of savings on each of those, not just overall. So I, I don't think it pertains to the same number that we're talking about. The report that we've been focused on and looking at on the construction projects, the multi-year is attached, and so we could revisit whether we want to attach that or want to revise it, but I do think it's consistent with the form of report that was issued for the years prior. And so that information is available to the public to see the way that the report has kind of evolved over time and may create more confusion for the public in changing the reporting. But I would suggest that as a committee for Measure S reporting, we consider something that's maybe potentially less confusing at best. At least in that budget heading category or—",
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      "text": "So that raises another question that I'll just ask while we're here. Under Item C, this, uh, there's other cost construction. That's the next biggest $3.3 million of program administration costs. What is that then? Construction under program administration? Do you happen to know?",
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      "text": "Any comment, Terry, on 6.3 before you leave? Mr. Robel?",
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      "text": "Yeah, so one thing I just— the CBOC might want to consider is going back to the— I think this was a good discussion about the budget, right? And I think we all agree it can be very confusing to somebody, even after you've gone through it, still confusing. But, um, When you go to the taxpayers, which is the CBOC's responsibility to inform, and you say we were under, under budget, right? I don't think, unless you're going back to the original estimate from whatever years ago, which I don't— and the, and the, you know, the Board of Trustees. Oh, on time, on budget. They always say that. I mean, if they're comparing it to this manufactured budget that's fluid, that doesn't really mean anything. We had this conversation, I know, at a CBOC a while ago. So I would you might want to consider removing that reference to being under budget in your report to the public. That, that was the earlier topic, right, where it says you're under, under budget? Yeah.",
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      "text": "Okay, well then post them publicly sooner. I mean, there's no— it has to be done 72 hours in advance, but it doesn't mean that it can't be done a week in advance, right? And since we only do this once every 3 months, is it, you know, I think we can just plan for it. So I'll work with you on that, and we'll try for the next meeting to give the members a full week to review the materials, because it's a lot of stuff, and it's only getting longer every time we do one of facilities. It's going to be more. So, okay, all right.",
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      "text": "Can we reopen the discussion? Um, so yes, but just a factual correction.",
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      "text": "It, it's a minor edit to the, um, cover sheet that says committee members approving a report. It has the full list of the committee, but the full committee is not here right now. Um, so for those who are not in attendance tonight Um, saying that they approved this report may not, um, be correct. I would just say that list the Citizens' Bond Oversight Committee members here and not say that, um, we— they are the ones who are—",
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